Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle (1942)

[rangerbluedog]

NO, NO Dogface! You're doing it all wrong!!!!
I love these old movies from the 1940s....

http://archive.org/details/Rifle_Marksm ... fle_Part_1

[jerryd6818]

We used what he calls the "hasty sling" for all positions. Of course we were using web slings on the M-14 because the leather slings went out with the M-1.

Cool video and much of it's the same, Army or Marine Corps, M-1 or M-14 or what ever weapon you're shooting.

[rangerbluedog]

Yep, I thought it was cool they were using the old M1907 sling. I have one of those on my Springfield.
I have the Kerr NOBUCKL sling on my M1917 rifle, and I must say I prefer it. The web slings are so much more "user friendly" in my humble opinion.
Got a M1 Garand on the way, I'll probably stick a web sling on that one too.

I've often wondered why the army takes all that time to teach "slingin' up", and it is almost never used except on the range. Just to torment the mud crunchers I reckon.

[Unk]

Cool video, Ranger.

These two are hanging on the wall behind me in my home office. I love seeing these first thing in the morning.

The Carbine is a Standard Products made in Sept. 1943 and the Garand is a 6-digit Springfield made in April 1941. My Father-in-law gave both of them to me last year.

The Garand has an Ultimak scope mount on it, but I think I will pop that off and put the wood hand guard back on.

[Old Hunter]

Cool training films Blue. I own a copy of The National Guard Manual - Basic, from 1947 - my Dad gave it to me when I was a teenager, lots of terrific information from that era, well illustrated with WW-II photos. Just a FYI for you gents, Turner Saddlery in Clay AL makes the finest M1907 (and other military slings) you will find anywhere. Turner is a retired Gunny Sergeant who knows his trade well. I own two of his slings, one is on my Garand, the other on my M1903A3. Like a good pocketknife they are expensive, however they are exquisite and worth every cent. OH

http://www.turnersling.com/index.html

[jerryd6818]

I've often wondered why the army takes all that time to teach "slingin' up", and it is almost never used except on the range. Just to torment the mud crunchers I reckon.

Because they want the troops to qualify and to be confident with what ever firearm they currently carry. Qualifying on the range makes the average Snuffy more confident he can hit what he's aiming at off the range. "Slingin' up" (even though you'll never use it off the range) promotes accuracy and helps achieve both goals.

[rangerbluedog]

The Garand has an Ultimak scope mount on it, but I think I will pop that off and put the wood hand guard back on.

I believe I would do that too Unk. Rails on a Garand just look wrong to me, but I am kind of a traditionalist.
That's a fine pair of rifles you have. That picture underneath is pretty cool too.

Great link, OH. Looks like turner makes some quality slings.

[RobesonsRme.com]

I had never fired an M-16 prior to going to Viet Nam in 1969.

I had qualified with the M-1 in Basic and the M-14 in Infantry AIT.

I had carried the M-16 in Special Forces while on FTX's.

While I was at Ft. Lewis, WA awaiting transport to RVN, they took me and a host of others to the range where we were briefly instructed on the M-16, then allowed to attempt to qualify.

Because of the previous training and qualifications with the older rifles, I was able to knock down practically all the targets that popped up and surprisingly, even to me, I hit every thing that was 400 meters or more down-range.

Training pays off.

Somewhere in my SF training I was instructed on and qualified with the .45 cal pistol. I do not recall why. I think it might have been in conjunction with some "special" weapons and munitions training I received.

Years later, I went to a gravel pit with some friends. I wanted to try out my new little .380.

First shot I fired was a semi-dud and the projectile didn't clear the barrel. Luckily, there wasn't enough blow back to chamber the next round, otherwise I would have most likely put the next one into the back of the one stuck in the barrel.

I don't think that's the most safe way to clear a stuck round.

So, I was without a functional pistol.

Someone handed me a fully loaded, brand new Smith & Wesson .45 and said, "Try this."
,
He threw a 7-UP can down range and I started shooting it. I hit it every time, until it jumped over a rise and out of my line of sight. It was ten straight shots.

I uncocked the pistol, engaged the safety and handed it back to the owner.

He just looked at it, then at me.

I shrugged my shoulders, pretended I knew exactly what I was doing and left.

Training, apparently, sticks for a while.

Charlie Noyes

[jerryd6818]

I shrugged my shoulders, pretended I knew exactly what I was doing and left.

Training, apparently, sticks for a while.

Charlie Noyes

Of course you knew what you were doing. Marksmanship is not about the weapon, it's all about sight picture, sight alignment, breath and squeeeeeze. It's like riding a bicycle. Once you learn, they're all the same and you never forget.

[robinetn]

QUOTE { I had qualified with the M-1 in Basic and the M-14 in Infantry AIT }

Hey Charlie , were your boots brown ?

Bob

[RobesonsRme.com]

No, they were black.

I did Basic at Ft. Campbell beginning in May, 1967, and AIT at Ft. Ord beginning in August.

I think Infantry AIT's such as those at Ft. Polk, LA utilized M-16's, as those folks usually went straight to RVN following a thirty day leave home.

When I was sent to Ft. Ord, it was for preparation for Infantry OCS, which never panned out, much to my advantage. The freezing of OCS classes in November, 1967, is what allowed me to test for Special Forces and I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything.

BTW; lest someone get confused re' my prowess with the .45 on the 7-UP can, it was on the ground when I started firing at it, not still in the air.

I did, however, keep it jumping further and further down range for ten straight fairly quick shots.

I did not offer to duplicate the feat.

Charlie Noyes

[treefarmer]

robinetn, your comment about brown boots just shook the old memory tree! My 1st boots at Parris Island in '64 were brown and on top of that they were rough out leather. Once you got 'em dyed and loaded with polish you could put a spit shine on them babies that wouldn't wait! Treefarmer

[robinetn]

robinetn, your comment about brown boots just shook the old memory tree! My 1st boots at Parris Island in '64 were brown and on top of that they were rough out leather. Once you got 'em dyed and loaded with polish you could put a spit shine on them babies that wouldn't wait! Treefarmer

I was just curious because I trained with the M14 in 1965 and had black boots (just a couple of years after the M1 and brown boots) .
Bob

[treefarmer]

M-14 at Parris Island in '64, I might add not everyone in our platoon was issued brown boots, may have been an alphabetical thing as my last name begins with Y. Never gave it much thought other than the dyed ruffout leather looked more "salty" than the regular black smooth leather. Treefarmer

[Quick Steel]

I think Infantry AIT's such as those at Ft. Polk, LA utilized M-16's, as those folks usually went straight to RVN following a thirty day leave home.

Basic at Ft. Polk 1966 = M-14. AIT at Ft. Ord = M-14. OCS forward all M-16.

I have very special regard for the SF. Many groups did fine soldering in NAM, Rangers, Marines, Seals etc. etc and high praise to them all. Its just that the SF were indeed special. They and their Montoyards (Sp?) did impressive work.

[jerryd6818]

Boot camp on 28 June 1962. Brown rough-out boots that we dyed and polished black to a high spit-shine. Brown dress shoes polished brown. Brown visor on my barracks cover. Brand new M-14s still in cosmoline. Talking to other Marines, I ran into a guy that was in the Series just before us and they were issued M-1s and a couple of weeks later turned them in for M-14s.

ITR (Infantry Training Regiment) for a month right after boot camp and we were issued M-1s. After that, out in the fleet, it was M-14s the rest of the time.

1963 (approximate official date) the Marines changed over to all black (boots, shoes, barracks cover brim). I was at Cherry Point when we got the word in late '64.

Just before I left Viet Nam in Aug of '66, I surveyed both pair of boots hoping to get a pair of jungle boots. Didn't happen. One pair was the old brown rough-outs we were issued in boot camp and the other was the new smooth black Doggy boots.