Who made the Old Timer MM8

[Shearer]

I just received my second Old Timer MM8 in the mail.My first had little snap on the main blade and I noticed it had pins through the bolster and a side scale plus bolster liner on the pile side .I thought the knife must have been repaired.On receiving the second knife it was the same.These must have been a knife made by some one else.( Imperial, Camillus ? )

[orvet]

If I had to guess I would say Camillus.
I will ask Tom Williams, he may know for sure. I am waiting for a call from him now, so hopefully I won't forget to ask him.

Another possibility is that someone worked on it.
If the blades loosen up, the only way to tighten them up is to drill out the bolsters and pin them.
That may be what happened to that one.


Schrade made knives without the Swinden key prior to about 1962, under the Schrade Walden name.
However, I don't think the Master Mechanic knives (made for Val Test/True Value) are that old, but I am not positive.
If it was made prior to about 1962, it would have been pinned through the bolsters just like the Schrade Waldens of that time.

[Shearer]

Dale the first one I received was worn and little snap in the main blade .On seeing the pins I thought it was repaired( caught again ).The second knife has sill got the factory edge on the blades no wobble.Both knives are built the same. I was leaning towards Camillus because of the pins in the bolster.
Grant

[orvet]

Tom and I finally touched base briefly by phone, but couldn't talk long as I was away from home helping my wife shop.

Tom didn't know of any knives made for Val-Test, but knows of earlier knives made for the company which was purchased by Val-Test. (I can't remember the name of the company at the monument).

Tom is going to check for info on the MM8 in the Camillus records.
There is a chance that if it was made in later years that Tom might not have records for it.


Does anyone know when Val-Test bought True Value? (I may be able to find it if no one knows. I think I have notes somewhere).

[Shearer]

Dale I found the Camillus C-2 in my collection has the same set up as the Old Timer MM8.I never noticed it before.These means some of the Old Timers where made by Camillus.The Camillus C-2 is the same design ( or copy ) as the Old Timer 89OT.( Same length ,same blade combination )

[jerryd6818]

Does anyone know when Val-Test bought True Value? (I may be able to find it if no one knows. I think I have notes somewhere).

From Wikipedia.

True Value Company traces its roots to four hardware cooperatives and a hardware wholesaler: American Hardware & Supply (ServiStar), Coast to Coast Corporation, Cotter & Company (True Value), and the Midwest-based Hibbard Spencer Bartlett & Company.
Cotter & Company was established in 1948 by John Cotter with 12 original member stores. The cooperative grew in membership and in 1962 Cotter & Company purchased the assets of Hibbard Spencer Bartlett & Company for $2.5 million, acquiring the True Value trademark for $2500 as part of the acquisition.[4] ServiStar Hardware (formerly American Hardware Supply) had previously purchased Coast to Coast Hardware[4] and had renamed itself to Servistar & Coast to Coast Hardware. Their hardware stores were operating under either ServiStar or Coast to Coast retail identities. In 1997 they merged with Cotter & Company to form TruServ Corporation.

TruServ Corporation is the largest 100 percent member-owned cooperative in the $145 billion do-it-yourself industry, with its members operating hardware stores, lumber yards, home centers and equipment rental stores. The retail names making up the TruServ cooperative includes True Value. TruServ also manufactures exclusive brands for its retail identities, including paints, brushes and rollers, spray paint, and cleaning supplies.

Since 1962, VAL-TEST has been a buying / Marketing Group for Distributors in the Hardware, Paint, Plumbing, Electrical, Housewares, Marine, and now the Decorative Arts Industries. We are advocates of two-step distribution. We combine the volume, and efforts, of our members into collective units of buying and selling influence. We then expose buyers to sellers and streamline communications between them. If these enhancements result in stronger business relationships, then our members will survive and our mission is a success.

It doesn't look to me like VAL-TEST owns True Value or TruServ.

[orvet]

Thank you Jerry, after a couple hours research it seems I had two or three companies mixed up as to who bought whom. (I hate getting old!)

Val Test is a buying and marketing group that bought Shapleigh’s rights to the Keen Kutter name (circa the early 1960s). This applies not just to knives but to a host of tools and other items as well.

Tom did say he knew Camillus made knives for Cotter & Co. Cotter & Co was the company that acquired the True Value trademark when they purchased Hibbard, Spencer & Bartlett in 1962.

I think Tom only has the Camillus records up to a certain point in the 1980s (I think). After that I believe he said they changes the process and I don’t think he has the newer records. We will have to wait & see what Tom can discover in the records.



My apologies for getting mixed up!










I hate getting old ‘cause I forget to take my memory pills!

[jerryd6818]

My apologies for getting mixed up!

Oh stop it. You have nothing to apologize for. Me thinks you put waay too much pressure on yourself with unreasonable standards.

[Old Hunter]

Dale, Jerry is right - I've been selling building materials for 30 years to members of all the buy groups (Co-ops) you mention - I cannot keep up with all the acquisitions, mergers, trademarks, and name changes that have taken place over the years and I do business with them! OH

[orvet]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the kind words.
I used to have a good memory and even committed a lot of things to memory.
As a Pastoral Ministry major in college I committed dozens of Biblical passages to memory, but no more.
A combination of infirmities, old age and medication keep me from going to the grocery store without a list if I need more then 2 or 3 things!

[Shearer]

Dale we all end up like old computer.We get to much in the memory and we have to loss some to add new memory.You take a 10 year old child they can only remember a small part of the life we are trying to remember 60 years more.
The main thing is to pass your knowledge onto the young generation.
We all write notes when we go shopping because we we all forget something.
How often have you gone to your workshop open the door and forgot what you went there for.It a sign of you trying to do to many things at the same time.
Be happy we all get things wrong at times.
Grant