Guns & Gun Related Stuff

[Just Plain Dave]

Glock 19 is one of those things I'll get if I ever can afford one! They feel great and point well.
I would tend to agree with Browning HP. The system is the same as a 1911. IE: Every shoot has the same sweet single action pull!

[zp4ja]

Hey Mike,

No other requirements as far as DA only? DA first shot than SA is OK? No external safety OK? Holster requirements? May sound like stupid question but when I talked to a LEO awhile back, single action upon draw was considered "too threatening" to the "alleged" bad guy. As if a gun pointed at you, SA or DA or unloaded for all the bad guy knows is not threating enough. Hopefully you are in a jurisdiction where the political BS is not a factor in your overall carry choice or personal safety.

All the guns the repliers suggested are fine guns! SIG SAUER will definetly cost you more but well worth the added cost in my opinion. Just my opinion only. Shot 15,000 rounds thru one SIG P226. Gave to my son. He never cleans it, all fouled up (now that he owns and never cleans it) and after another 5000 or so rounds, he reported no jams also. All original parts incuding the barrel. Bought it in about 1993' if I recall correctly.

Just bought a GLOCK 21 .45 and I hear they are indestructable. Shoots lead and big grains fine but I don't like the feel personally and the DA only. To each his own, it fills a desired niche in my protection collection but not my "go to, if I could only keep one gun".

Been exposed to alot of handguns and looked at a few that were mentioned as options here. In all honesty, have not fired some mentioned so I certainly will no discount those options.

Bought a SIG SAUER P226 "Navy SEALS Issue MK-25" last year. Feel, action, handling, dependability, consistency, finish and control is Phenomenal. I assume the SEALS had some choices in what the standard issue would be and the decision on a particular sidearm was not rammed down their throat due to govermental bureaucracy. If it was, good choice to ram down their throat, in my opinion. Literally 10 to 20 SIG P226 model to choose from much less in price than the $1000 this set me back, but hey, it was there, I wanted it and very happy with my purchase.

They have a cool fully adjustable and adaptable holster system. I have an after market "hard" holster at this time and no one is going to rip this out of the holster if it came down to a struggle. Push button release that becomes muscle relex after a few cycles, just like a snap holster.

Some will disagree with me, as I have already posted on this topic, but I am a minimal safety on a firearm owner. NOTE, I did not say I am not all for gun safety and handling, as I strongly believe, like everyone else in that. I just don't prefer external safeties on my slide guns. None of my revovlers have one. As i said before, the main safety on a gun is the person whom is holding it. Multiple user disengaged safeties (unlike a grip or trigger safety) just add to the comfort level of being safe. I have also stated previously that I am not a fan of the "Magazine Safety" or "Kill Switch". Never owned one. The idea that if I mistakenly drop a full or partial magazine if the mag release is unintentionally engaged for whatever reason and I have one round chambered that cannot be discharged, just doesn't appeal to me. A good locking holster should prevent that need, in my opionion. Can't grab the gun easily from the holster, no need for a mag safety, again in my opinion. Personally have never had an accidental discharge yet on any firearm.

Anyway, the SIG i bought came with three 15 round mags and a hard case. A fine gun.

As the others have said, head to the range, rent a few or borrow one from a buddy and choose what you feel comfortable with. Just my opinion.

Whatever your choice, all the safety and prayers to you and yours.

Regards, Jerry

[tjmurphy]

A Glock 19 is my carry gun. It's locked and loaded at all times but I use a trigger block for safety. The block will pop out with the slightest touch.

[PigSticker]

You only got $4-500.00 to spend get the Berretta had mine since the 90's

[Old Hunter]

hOWDY Men.
Im in the market for a duty pistol for academy training.(Im not shopping here, just looking for advice.) requirements are 9x19 or .40, prefferably 15 round cap. I will need to get a holster and mag pouch as well with two spare mags. I'd like to stay close to $500. I've never used one, but I'm leaning towards a glock 22.

Whadaya think, shooters? any advice is helpful.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike, if you decide you want Glock brand find a Glock authorized law enforcement dealer; LEO, military, as well as retired LEO and military, are all eligible to purchase a Glock through the LE program (bought my Glock 23 from a Glock LE Dealer). It works like this - the boxes that have a blue label (vs. the normal white or "night sight" red labels) are law enforcement guns - same gun, but you get a $100.00 discount and an extra magazine (three total). You have to allow the dealer to photocopy your LE or DOD ID card (if it is an older DOD ID you can black out the SSN on the face). The dealer gives you the discount up front and files for re-reimbursement from Glock. You can only do this at one of their authorized LE dealers (but they seem to be pretty well distributed around here in NC and in VA). Good luck on your choice. OH

[MikeEngland]

Wow! thanks guys! a Lot of awesome suggestions.
I have to addmit, my macho side was kinda taking over at first saying "get the .40! bigger is better." but for the purpose of trainig and excersize, I think Quick Steel makes a good point. I want to work on accuracy and efficiency. If and when I find a position with an agency, and they preffer to issue a .40 I'll be all about it, but until then, I'm leaning towards 9mm. I was pleased to hear that some of you still enjoy the Beretta. It was always one of my favorites, but you seldom see them around here any more. I wish I had more time to get to the range so I could try out some of these suggestions, but between work and class time I'm really starting to miss my Honey and sonny,(and it's only been a month! ) besides that, Idk about where you guys live, but no joke, since the most resent surge in gun paranoia, the waiting line as the range nearest me is never less than 45min. long! . In spite of all that though, a new gun shop opened up this year about two blocks from home so I think Im gonna go check it out this afternoon. My brother has already become a regular there and says that the guy has got a good selection and fair prices. I'll be looking for the pieces that you all have suggested here and who knows, maybe I'll make a deal.

Thanks for your help, guys.
I'll let you know how it goes

Mike

[Sauconian]

Mike,

In the last several weeks I've purchased a Beretta PX4 and a S&W M&P Shield, both in 9mm. The S&W is strictly for cc. The PX4 is full sized and a sweet shooter, and is in your price range. Sig, Springfield, Kimber etc. all make fine guns, but if this is a new venture stick with a good quailty, but less expensive arm until you have the experience to form an opinion of your own as to what suits you. Guns are like chips...you can never have just one. Glocks have a lot of fans, but I'd leave them be until you have more experience. Don't overlook gently used guns either.

9mm has a lot to recommend it over .40's & .45's if you're a new shooter. In normal times 9mm is less expensive than the larger cals. so it's cheaper to practice a lot. The lighter loads also let you get all of that practice without developing bad habits that can be a result of starting out too ambitiously. 9 will also hurt a bad guy just as badly as 40 or 45 too, if you practice and learn to shoot it. Anyone who doesn't practice a lot would be better off with a DB 12 ga. ( Hard as hell to cc one though ! )
Just as a side note : The Shield is supposed to have the best trigger pull of any of the M&P's, short of coming out of the custom shop. After some honing and polishing of the factory parts, mine measured in the mid 8 lb. range. With only 2-300 rounds through it, the Beretta came in at 4lbs. 3 oz. single action.

Fran

[MikeEngland]

Thanks, Fran
I've actually done a fair share of shooting for a town mouse, but I've never participated in any formal training. I bought my first slide gun early this year, a Ruger LC9. very compact, not suitable capacity for the required training, but I have burned a few hundred rounds in 9mm since then. Prior experience comes mostly from what ever my younger (and considerably more "gunthusiastic") brothers brought to the range, but over the years I've definitly had some fun.. Regardless, I really think 9mm is the way to go. You're right, IMO the size of the bullet is secondary to where you put it. Besides, I'm already buying 9mm, so why not stick with whats comfortable, says I. I don't think switching back and forth with different calibers is gonna do me any favors in this situation.
And as far as buying guns is like eating chips... Well, the wife won't let me have any chips, either. So I will be looking for the most practical, versitile, best quality for the price, gun I can afford, and it likely won't be a "if ya don't like it, try something else" situation. In my experience, you get something that works, and you learn how to use as best you can. That being the case, the advice I get from you folks here and others who know, will hopefully prevent me from running out and grabbing the first thing that sparkles and goes bang, so thanks again guys.

Mike

[junebug]

RUGER PK95DC LOVE THE DE-COCK FEATURE......PISTOL ROCKS

[xstuntman]

The Smith and Wesson Sigma was copy of the Glock, so much so that they were sued over it. S/W is currently phasing them out in favor of the SD which is simply a slightly different version of the Sigma with better sights. Sigmas have heavier triggers and usually go for $300 if you can find one and the SD is usually around $350. Both are available in 9mm or forty caliber.

My Sigma has been great with the trigger getting better after a couple hundred. Qualified with it too and got a perfect score, so the trigger thing is all in the head.

[Quick Steel]

I have to addmit, my macho side was kinda taking over at first saying "get the .40! bigger is better

ME: As you may or may not already know, Americans have a love affair-a passionate love affair-with the .45. I enjoy the .45 and for me it shoots with less recoil than a .40 which has a pretty sharp impulse. But I'll tell you something many don't realize. For decades people have been buying hollowpoint ammo for the .45 so that there would be more expansion. I can't imagine how many millions of dollars have been spent on .45 caliber holloow points. The thing is many of those bullets never expanded for the simple reason that most .45 ammo lacks sufficient velocity to achieve expansion upon impact.

Another issue with holow points of all calibers, especially during winter in northern lattitudes where heavy clothing is worn: in the micro second at the moment of impact the hollow would often fill with clothing and fail to expand.

Hollow points are a good thing because more energy is dumped into the target thru the achieved expansion. Now here is good news. Major ammo manufacturers have developed HPs that will always expand. I believe Remington, Hornady and maybe Federal are on the band wagon but check things out for yourself. With this new generation of ammo you need never feel "under gunned" with a 9.mm.

[rangerbluedog]

It was pouring rain today, but I took a couple of plastic fantastics to the range for a workout. Nice to test the gear in "real world" mode every now and then.

[Quick Steel]

All the guns the repliers suggested are fine guns! SIG SAUER will definetly cost you more but well worth the added cost in my opinion

zp4ja: Info only. Last I heard the only two brands most Federal agencies approve (Secret Service, Air Marshalls, Border Patrol etc.) are H&K and Sig.
And they do put them thru exceptional torture testing. I don't know what the general side arm is for the FBI. Some of their units use .45s

[garddogg56]

Anyone have any experiance with CCI STANDARD VELOSITY .22 ROUNDS? As U know .22 are hard to find,I useually buy hi-velosity but all I could get were these ,so I put 4 clicks down on my scope and shot a perfect @ 50 yard I think I found a new round to feed my Marlin60 ::nod::she's a quiet load at 1070 per.We shot over each other same target mine are marked B AL's are circled.

[MikeEngland]

Well, I've made my decision.
Picked this up on Friday nite and I've been all tingly ever since.
It came down to a choice btw this and a Glock17. Pound for pound both guns were great, but the SR9 just felt more refined. The slimmer grip has a much more confident and natural feel to me and the trigger pull @ about 6.5lb is crisp with very little hesitation.
A big plus for a lefty like me is that just about everything on the Ruger is ambidextrous. Some folks turn their noses up at the multitude of safety features, but I don't really mind it. There is a mag safety but it is designed to be easily removed by the user.
Another big plus was the price!
sR9- case , slide lock , mag loader , 1 spare mag
G17- case , 2 spare mags , not sure if it came with a pad lock.
Saved about $130. That's more than enough difference to afford a spare mag from Ruger.
17+1 capacity, top and rear of slide loaded chamber indicator, SS slide, slimmer profile than almost any gun in its class. IMO this gun can dance toe to toe with any glock, m&p, or XD that it's sharing the shelf with.
For the most part all the reviews I read are overwhelmingly positive. More importantly, it meets or exceeds all the requirements that I was hoping to fill.
So it just remains to be seen how well I can make it perform.

[jerryd6818]

Nice Mike. Makes me want one.

[philco]

Mike I think you have made an excellent selection. I hope you will be well satisfied with your new pistol. It sort of favors the one I carry........

[zp4ja]

Very nice Mike! Also has a trigger safety. Looks like that will suit your needs fine. Keep us posted after you have taken it for a test drive.

It was pouring rain today, but I took a couple of plastic fantastics to the range for a workout. Nice to test the gear in "real world" mode every now and then.

Ranger,

Looks like a fun day. What model is that AR? Can't expand the pics but looks like a Bushmaster XM-15 E2S M4. They all look real similar. Mine is a Bushmaster XM-15 E2S with M4 barrel and also removable A3 carry handle. I like the fact it can handle 5.5.6 and .223 ammo. I posted some targets a page or two back on my first shots at 50 yards. Can't say enough about this rifle, tight shooter. Even with my eyesight failing, no glasses on I can clearly see the front and rear sights and target and the stock and overall balance allow me to hold pretty damn steady for an extended time before arm fatigue makes me start to lose a steady shot.

We have a free county gun range 10 minutes away (or the desert, less than 3 minutes away) to shoot. The range is nicely setup, I'll have to snap some pics. The 400 yards range has a metal "gong" that I am going to see if I can hit at 400 yards with open sights one of these days.

Jerry

[rangerbluedog]

Very nice Mike! Also has a trigger safety. Looks like that will suit your needs fine. Keep us posted after you have taken it for a test drive.

It was pouring rain today, but I took a couple of plastic fantastics to the range for a workout. Nice to test the gear in "real world" mode every now and then.

Ranger,

Looks like a fun day. What model is that AR? Can't expand the pics but looks like a Bushmaster XM-15 E2S M4. They all look real similar. Mine is a Bushmaster XM-15 E2S with M4 barrel and also removable A3 carry handle. I like the fact it can handle 5.5.6 and .223 ammo. I posted some targets a page or two back on my first shots at 50 yards. Can't say enough about this rifle, tight shooter. Even with my eyesight failing, no glasses on I can clearly see the front and rear sights and target and the stock and overall balance allow me to hold pretty damn steady for an extended time before arm fatigue makes me start to lose a steady shot.

We have a free county gun range 10 minutes away (or the desert, less than 3 minutes away) to shoot. The range is nicely setup, I'll have to snap some pics. The 400 yards range has a metal "gong" that I am going to see if I can hit at 400 yards with open sights one of these days.

Jerry

You have good eyes Jerry. That is exactly what it is. I got it as a heavy barrel version back in the 1990s. Put the short barreled upper on it a few years ago. It is surprising how accurate these little guns can be. I am a holy terror on two liter bottles at 300 yards with iron sights.

[rangerbluedog]

Just picked up this plinker today. I have plans for a makeover for this one. Came with an East German ammo pouch, three magazines, and 350 rounds.

Egyptian Maadi

[garddogg56]

Anyone have any experiance with CCI STANDARD VELOSITY .22 ROUNDS? As U know .22 are hard to find,I useually buy hi-velosity but all I could get were these ,so I put 4 clicks down on my scope and shot a perfect @ 50 yard I think I found a new round to feed my Marlin60 ::nod::she's a quiet load at 1070 per.We shot over each other same target mine are marked B AL's are circled.

Anyone shoot these round??

[Old Hunter]

Dogg, I bought a box recently but have not shot them as of yet. I recently picked up two .22LR firearms from an estate that I haven't shot yet; a new Belgian Browning Challenger (made in 1966) and a used, but excellent condition Winchester M63 (made in 1955). I didn't need another firearm chambered for a rimfire round, but they were in such nice condition and of such a high level of manufacturing quality (that you simply don't see today) that I couldn't leave them alone. I know that standard velocity ammuntion will not cycle a M63 (engraved right on the barrel it requires Super Speed or Super-X rounds) but I hope the Challenger will cycle them - cannot find any Super-X right now and Super Speed is long discontinued. If all fails I do have a Ruger Single Six I can shoot them in. OH

[treefarmer]

Old Hunter, how about posting a picture of the 63 so us Winchester lovers can lust and drool ? Love to see that one!
Treefarmer

[garddogg56]

YEA ^like treefarmer says...nice finds OH

[Old Hunter]

I've been looking around for a decent Winchester made in 1955 (my birth year) - came across this one several weeks ago - it'll do! OH