Guns & Gun Related Stuff

[rangerbluedog]

Nice one Phil!

[zp4ja]

I have a question, anyone heard of these "button guns" they are selling in Calif? I saw a guy from CA at the range that had one the other day. He called it a button gun. Never heard of or seen one myself. Basically a semi-auto .223 (maybe other calibers or handguns for all I know) that when the clip is empty, the mag release has a button with a depression in it that you have to use a bullet tip or some other pointy device to release the mag. Press the release with your fingertip will not release the mag unless you have a pointy object that works surgically implanted in your fingertip. Supposed to cause some delay in reloading clips in case someone goes off the deep end. I think these senseless shootings are horrible but I just wondering what other safeties or "combination locks opened to be able to fire" are coming down the pipe.

Regards, Jerry

[big monk]

____Nice pick-up ,Phil ____looks to be about the same size as my 9mm Ruger LC9LM ??? -----little bigger than a S&W Bodyguard ??? just curious,cause I have never seen one in hand***

[Colonel26]

Phil that's a fine looking little pistol there.

Jerry, the mag release, aka bullet button, if I'm not mistaken is a California thing. It's all about "safety", you know, for the children!

[Just Plain Dave]

I've always kind of hankered for a CZ75....

[philco]

Thanks guys.

Jerry the polymer version of the Rami was discontinued in 2011. They still make the alloy version like I have. It comes in both 9mm and .40 S&W with either a manual safety or a decocker/safety.

Monk, I think the two guns are similar in size as far as profile is concerned, but the Rami has a double stacked magazine so it's wider than your Ruger. The Rami came with a ten shot mag which is in the gun in my pictures, and also with a 14 round mag which I didn't photograph.

[Swengen]

When Sig Sauer came out with these I knew I had to have one. Haven't fired it yet, but it is really an impressive gun. Not my photo but it's a beauty with a bronze finish.

[Old Hunter]

Phil, never seen or heard of a Rami before - very nice looking - would like to read about you thoughts when you finally get to shoot it (find yourself an indoor range). Swengen, cool finish on the SIG (all SIG's are nice!) OH

[zp4ja]

Thanks for the info Phil.

Jim, with one exception, I am a SIG Auto man myself. Would love next to pick up a 1911. Fine gun there my friend!

The recent posts reminded me I forgot to post some pics of my own. I posted a couple pics of some targets a few pages back and my camera died.

DPMS .308LR with Barska 6-24 Swat Scope. Actually chambered for 7.62X51MM Nato but works even better using .308. Nice to be able to shoot both though.

Spent about 8 hours at the range the 2 days after Christmas. Vey consistent shooting package. Shot both 147gr and 165gr .308. Both dead on at 200 yards, see target pic below. Beyond that, used mildot holdover calculations and consistently hit the 12 steel plate at 400 yards and closer on some smaller plates. I added a pic of the 100 to 400 yard range taken at 1X with my cell camera form the bench (you can see the tip of the barrel in the bottom of the pic. 400 yards is a long way out, in my opinion. At 20X on the scope, looks like you are standing 20 feet away or closer. I eventually want to try out to 800 yards at some point.

The following 3 days I went Elk Hunting and since shot distance would not be short, I took this AR-10 with me. Besides, what better way to shut up the anti gun nuts whom say these guns are not used for hunting. In fact, alot of hunters use them.

I added some pics of the terrain to show why you may need a 400 plus yard gun on this hunt. Closest ELK I saw was about 2500 yards away. We did see some large bucks and antelope up close. I learned Elk hunting is a totally different ball game, at least in Nevada.

Regards, Jerry

[philco]

Cool rig there Jerry. That's one heck of a scope you have there.

Love the scenery pics.

[IMBand]

AWESOME pistol Jim!! WOWZER!!
That rifle ain't too shabby either Jerry.....VERY NICE!!

IM

[Old Hunter]

Beautiful country Jerry - eye candy while hunting! OH

[zp4ja]

Thanks Gents. Yes it is pretty country.

Phil, the scope looks ominous with the 4 or 5" sunshade attached, as pictured. Does not reduce the light much coming into the optics. I perfer that over direct sun blinding me.

Jerry

[Just Plain Dave]

SWEET! 308 and NICE glass!

[jerryd6818]

Actually chambered for 7.62X51MM Nato but works even better using .308.
Regards, Jerry

I have always been under the impression the 7.62x51mm Nato and the .308 are exactly the same round. Disabuse me if I am incorrect.

[Old Hunter]

The 7.62 NATO round is the same dimensionally, but is loaded to NATO standards to work in all NATO Member Country automatic rifles (M14, etc.) and via linked belts in machine guns (M60, etc.); pressure can be higher than in the commercial .308 WIN (developed by Winchester and standardized as a SAAMI round in 1952). Once a round is standardized with SAAMI it can never be loaded to a higher pressure (unless so marked and identified as +P) the militaries of NATO are not under that type of restriction. Often NATO rounds are marked on the headstamp with a "+" in a "o" symbol to denote it is a standardized NATO round. Standardizing on a round and load pressure was done so that NATO allies could use each others ammunition if fighting the Soviets in the Cold War era became necessary - that is why we adopted the European standard pistol cartridge in 1980 (or so) when we knew the 45acp was a superior pistol round. The same thing applies to 5.56 NATO vs. 223 REM (the barrel of those will be stamped 223 REM ONLY) - different pressure and different barrel twist. You can safely shoot a .308 WIN in a 7.62x51 NATO chamber but not NECESSARILY the opposite; same applies to 223 REM/5.56 NATO. OH

[treefarmer]

Jerry, your world is so different than mine! Great pictures, do y'all even know about trees ? Living in flat Florida and surrounded by pine trees, we're lucky to have a 100 yard shot (except on power line R/Ws and crop land). We do have an occasional hill now and then.

What power do you crank that thing up to when target shooting? I'm still a traditionalist, shooting a wooden stocked bolt action, don't know about those AR type rifles, but I do use a 'scope .
Treefarmer

[big monk]

What Treefarmer said X 2 ****___________that's me too,Jerry__ the land where I'm hunting,--- 65-100 yds. is as far as I can see ____when I ""use to"" get on a power line or road bed, may have a longer shot,(150-200 yds.)--but since passing the 60 year mark for birthdays,I have stayed on the ground and away from the power lines ____________ even bought me a 30-30 Model #94 for ""brush hunting"" ---but shoot the reminton 25-06 with scope, for most of my hunting** ________________but I have to agree with the others, that is some mighty pretty country,you have out your way !!!!!!

[jerryd6818]

Colonel, thank you for the education. So shoot your civilian rounds in a military rifle but don't shoot military ammo in a civilian rifle.

[tjmurphy]

Except for the Ruger Mini-14, you can shoot both .223 and 5.56mm NATO

[zp4ja]

Thanks Dave! Love this setup!

Very well said and articulate OH! That also is my understanding exactly. DO NOT try to shoot 7.62x51mm in a .308 is my understanding. Funny thing is that the underside of the barrel is stamped 7.62x51mm and the receiver say .308
My understanding and research shows this particular gun is good to go for both.

Monk and Treefarmer, shots in the ranges you have mentioned are far and few between in NV. There are some hunt zones that are wooded with aspens or ponderosa pines but not many trees on average for sure, at least in Northern Nevada. Some beautiful country (and rugged) for sure. My son got an antelope or two bowhunting. His buddies have taken deer and elk with a bow. Even with a rifle (or bow) here, some extent of stalking, intensive scouting, maybe crawling for 200 yards or more thru sagebrush to get into range and major planning is required to bag a big game animal. They have gotten big because they are smart. The bucks here have HUGE racks, big mulies.
The third scenery shot of the snowy mountain is about 2 thousand feet tall and that is a short one. We were standing in over a foot of snow where I took the pic and at 5200 feet of elevation. We ran into some 3 to 4 foot snow drifts in lower areas. When my son suggested we climb that mountain and see what was on the other side, I declined. Forget the killer hike that would take 2 or 3 hours, after you shoot the 400 pound plus Elk, you have to pack it out after you quarter the damn thing where it dropped and that assumes one trip depending on the size of the harvest, how many guys you have, what time of day and do you have time to dress and pack out safely, etc. Lots of factors to think of even with one in the crosshairs. No one wants to wound an animal or have to fetch a kill after it drops down a ravine or mountain side 1 mile or more from the truck in hard terrian and another 3 hours drive home. But hey, that is why they call it hunting and not harvesting. Sometimes you may get lucky on a closer shot. Not many trees here so they can see you coming from a mile away, literally, in most areas. I do love my traditional rifles. Had my Dad's 30-06 as a backup for the hunt. Only has a 3X9 scope and very sensitive to bumps though so I decided on the AR since it was so damn consistent and accurate to 400 yards.Typically, I am an old school man in life, especially when it comes to morals, knives and guns. With some exceptions, new school guns sometimes has their adanvtages.

Treefarmer,
I decided to use mildot hold-over or hold-under in leiu of turret adjustments. So I found that with ease to see and mildot factor, I sighted in at the following. Doing so, you have to use the correct magnification on 100 to 400 yards unless the mildot adjustment is inaccurate. The parrallax stting on the scope is awesome in accurracy as well as rangefinding of sorts, out of focus if magnifaction, distance and parralax do not match. If anyone is shooting long range scope without parralax adjustment, I suggest you get a scope that has it. Just my opinion.

.308 147 gr.
100 yards= + 1 mildot at 16X magnification
200 yards= zero at 18X magnification
300 yards= -1.5 mildot at 20X magnification
400 yards= -3 mildot at 22X magnification

.308 165 gr.
100 yards= +1 mildot at 16X magnification
200 yards= zero at 18X magnification
300 yards= -2 mildot at 20X magnification
400 yards= -4 mildot at 22X magnification

Just made it easy at these settings not to have to futz with the scope when buck or elk fever sets in when you see your hopeful harvest. Nice thing is the scope has turrets that can be zerod after sighting at any range. Will eventually have to recalulate magnification and mildot hold-over if I plan on my goal of out to 800 yards. Running out of mildots to hold over and eventually that range will be outside of my optics at current settings and calculations. But hey, all part of the fun. The scope will been fine out to that distance, no problem, with the proper adjustment but I might invest in the same Barska scope in 8X32 if I have to.

Regards All and take care, Jerry

[Old Hunter]

Except for the Ruger Mini-14, you can shoot both .223 and 5.56mm NATO

TJ, Ruger's vary as to when they were built - the rifle will be stamped with what is safely shootable for the chamber.

Jerry, you have it right - on AR style rifles there are many interchangeable barrels/cartridges - the chamber proofing is stamped on the barrel.

OH

[tjmurphy]

My mini is a later model (2011) and Ruger states it will fire either round.

[jerryd6818]

My Mini-14 Ranch was made in 1996 and has .223 stamped on the receiver.

[tjmurphy]

Mine has .223 stamped on it also, but Ruger's literature (web site) says .223/5.56 I've shot 5.56 through it with no problems. http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14Ran ... odels.html