Need Help--How to stop Gold Glitter handle deterioration?

[QTCut5]

I just pulled out these two Copperheads that have been in storage for about one year. They were stored in a felt-lined, zippered, vinyl knife case with about 40 other knives (mostly bone & stag handles) these are the only synthetic handled and the only ones showing signs of deterioration. On the large Copperhead, about half the shield is also turning brown (that's the actual color in the photo, it is NOT due to light reflection) and the front (shield) side scale is turning dark and losing the sparkle. The back side shows no color deterioration. On the mini Copperhead it's just the opposite: front (shield) side has original sparkle, back side is turning brown. Both knives were stored side-by-side with shield side facing upwards. My question is: Why are they losing the sparkle? and Can anything be done to halt further deterioration? Any suggestions are welcome as I have no idea why this is happening.

Cheers & Aloha,
QPGwynn

[Mumbleypeg]

Definitely remove the celluloid knives from the others. You can read all known literature about celluloid but bottom line is no one knows why it deteriorates, or how to stop it. Once it starts it will not stop. If it hasn't started, it will eventually. There is extensive discussion if the topic on this forum - use the search function, keyword celluloid.

Also, based on personal experience I would not store knives of any kind in knife rolls (see notable exception below ). Knife rolls are great for taking knives to a show or similar, but the chemicals and dyes used in manufacturing the cloth, leather, Naugahyde/vinyl, elastic, or whatever other materials are used in manufacture of knife rolls are not safe IMHO for long term storage of knives. Just too much risk involved. I learned this the hard way. The only exception to this I have found is the Sack-ups brand. Over many years I have not had any problems from using them for storage of knives or firearms.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news but better to be safe than sorry.

Ken

[Elvis]

Once the celluloid has started to break down, there's no stopping it. Contact Case Repair as they should be covered under their warranty. 1-800-523-6350

[QTCut5]

Ken, excellent advice. After much reading about celluloid "gassing" I learned quite a bit that I did not know (nothing unusual about that), not the least of which is why I have never been particularly drawn to celluloid handles (except for the two Goldstone examples in my photo). I prefer natural materials like stag, bone and even wood (as long as it has been properly stabilized) over anything synthetic as I fully expect my collection to outlast/outlive me and be passed on to future generations until the end of time...and then STILL be around for the alien archeologists to discover and marvel over when the Earth is eventually re-colonized by a wiser, more advanced species!

Bob, thank you for your advice and the contact number as well...it never occurred to me that this would qualify as a warranty issue. Would Case replace the scales with new ones that would do the same thing over time? Knowing what we do about celluloid, it is kind of a mystery to me why anyone would even want one but I suppose everyone has their reasons...different strokes, etc.

As always, I appreciate anyone who takes the time to respond to my posts and the extreme amount of patience you must have to continue educating us less-knowledgable knife enthusiasts on matters both trivial and very likely exasperatingly ignorant to you who are more experienced and wiser. As a former jr. high school teacher, I understand how frustrating it can be sometimes...so I want to be sure you know how much I sincerely appreciate and value the free education you so willingly provide.

Cheers & Aloha,
~Q~

[edge213]

Q,
My daughter had 4 Goldstone Case knives that were outgassing badly. I sent them to Elvis/Bob. He rehandled them in acrylic and they turned out beautiful. Here are 3 of them.

[QTCut5]

David, those look nice...almost like jade. Just curious, what does a re-handle job like that cost, approximately? Also, did the celluloid affect the blades or liners at all? On my big Goldstone Copperhead the shield is half brown and you can see the beginnings of discoloration along the edge of the bolsters.

[Elvis]

As far as costs to have your knife rehandled, let's just say "Your mileage may vary".

[edge213]

David, those look nice...almost like jade. Just curious, what does a re-handle job like that cost, approximately? Also, did the celluloid affect the blades or liners at all? On my big Goldstone Copperhead the shield is half brown and you can see the beginnings of discoloration along the edge of the bolsters.

As far as cost for rehandle I would suggest you contact one of the mechanics on AAPK. Elvis did our knives and they are excellent. I highly recommend him.
The outgassing did corrode the liners causing the covers to look green. The shields turned brown, no bolsterss on these knives. It did cause corrosion on the blade of the doctor knife. Here are before pics of our knives. Keep in mind these all were Goldstone.

[Mumbleypeg]

As always, I appreciate anyone who takes the time to respond to my posts and the extreme amount of patience you must have to continue educating us less-knowledgable knife enthusiasts on matters both trivial and very likely exasperatingly ignorant to you who are more experienced and wiser. As a former jr. high school teacher, I understand how frustrating it can be sometimes...so I want to be sure you know how much I sincerely appreciate and value the free education you so willingly provide.

Cheers & Aloha,
~Q~

Q, you have hit on exactly what is so great about AAPK. There are so many knowledgeable folks here that are happy to share their knowledge. Wish such a resource existed when I started (Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet ), and wish I had found AAPK sooner.

Ken

[QTCut5]

And did I mention that everyone on AAPK always seems to be in a good mood with a great sense of humor and rapier-like wit? So refreshing from other online sites that are so full of ignorance, predjudice, negativity, hate, anger, etc. Knife guys are my kind of people!

Cheers & Aloha, everybody!
~Q~

[Elvis]

And did I mention that everyone on AAPK always seems to be in a good mood with a great sense of humor and rapier-like wit? So refreshing from other online sites that are so full of ignorance, predjudice, negativity, hate, anger, etc. Knife guys are my kind of people!

Cheers & Aloha, everybody!
~Q~

I've been saying for years: "Knife folk are good folk!". Seems like you found that out too Q. From the freshest rookie I've ever met to a friend who is one of the premier custom knife makers in the country, (almost without exception) everyone I know who has knowledge about knives is williing to share it. The true collectors will clue you in about how to spot a fake, reading the knife before the tang stamp and things I can't even think of, while the repairman and makers will explain and show you everything they can (if they like you.) It's up to the individual as to how involved they wish to become. AAPK can take you as far as you want to go. Appreciate the attitude!
Aloha (My son was born on Oahu, 1977)

[QTCut5]

Oahu...1977? Well, if you haven't been back since then, believe me, it has changed a LOT! I'm on the Big Island and have seen drastic changes in just the last 10 years...it's starting to get crazy over here.

But, back to the celluloid handle issue...How is the best way to store them to minimize or delay the outgassing problem? Or is there absolutely nothing that can be done? In all my research and reading about this problem, I couldn't find anything besides simply storing them individually, wrapped in acid free paper in an airtight, waterproof container.

Here are some of my other celluloid handled knives. Notice the Goldstone Dr.'s knife still has that sparkly brilliance that attracted me to this material in the first place (like a blue marlin hitting on a stinger lure!)

~Q~

[Elvis]

I have a little bit of good news for you. From nearest to farthest, the second knife is Corelon and won't break down like celluloid. It's safe to put back with the others. If the celluloid knives aren't showing any signs of problems you can give them a good coat of Ren Wax, store them separate and hope for the best. Any signs of rust, tarnish or anything else that doesn't look right is probably due to the celluloid and those handles should be replaced. While it's always a good idea to get bad celluloid off of a knife as soon as possible, if you aren't familiar with how to do it without damaging the knife, leaving it on there a little longer until you can get it into the hands of your chosen repairman is probably best.

I was stationed at Ft. Shafter from 1976-79 and went back in 2006 for my step-son's wedding. He was stationed at the Marine Corps Air Station at Kaneohe Bay. Lots of changes in those 30 years, but still a beautiful place. I also enjoyed several trips to the Big Island necessary for my work while stationed on Oahu. Would've loved to have gone back there too.

[QTCut5]

You are correct...the White Pearl (at top) is also Corelon. Not sure what the scales of the Bulldog (at bottom) are but it's a newer one so it's probably Corelon as well, or whatever Bulldog Brand uses that is similar to Corelon.
A few more questions for the experts:

1) Does celluloid have a specific "shelf life" (or "half-life," as it were) or does that depend on too many other factors to accurately determine? (Storage method, temperature, humidity, amount of use/handling, sunlight/heat exposure, etc.)

2) Any idea when Case stopped using celluloid for knife scales? All my Goldstones are from Case's centennial anniversary year, 1989, but according to my research it was being used for a long time prior to that.

3) What other scale colors were made of celluloid besides the Goldstone?

Hey, Bob/Elvis, it's cool that you got to see/live in Hawaii way back then. Most people I've known or talked to over the years who have ever lived for a time in HI (myself included) say that it affects them in a way unlike any other state and actually seems more like living in a totally different country (which, of course, many feel it rightfully is and/or should be again). Although I imagine that being in the military and living on a military base your experience was slightly different than that of the civilian population and you probably have a different take on the whole "sovereignty" issue.

Cheers & Aloha,
~Q~

[Elvis]

The imitation tortoise shell on the Bulldog is also celluloid. Even though it may be a newer knife, a lot of the German makers still use it. It's been noted that the lighter colors of celluloid tend to begin the breaking down process sooner than the darker ones, but still it's always a crap shoot. I have seen knives less than 10 years old begin to break down while others still look perfect after 100 years. Other than the lighter ones starting to off-gas sooner, there is no rhyme or reason to celluloid. It simply does what it wants. Case has used celluloid a few times since those 1989 goldstones, but mostly on their "Select" line that still gets nickel-silver liners. The ones I have are candy stripe as well as good old red bone.

The first two weeks I was in Hawaii, I really didn't care much for it. It wasn't until my car arrived and I was able to really get out and see the island that I began to develop a true appreciation for it's beauty and the rich mixture of cultures that make it up. I could've extended my stay there and to this day wonder why I didn't. My job was for someone 2 paygrades above me at the time and my career was going really well. While we did live in post housing on Ft. Shafter, our place was the last one on the side of a mountain with a million dollar view. We could see Downtown Honolulu and Diamond Head from the back yard and Pearl Harbor and the Airport from the front. They were being prepared for demolition when I went back in 2006 and Google Earth shows a clean bulldozed area now. Still, I received the Army Commendation Medal for my service there and remember it as one of the best assignments of my time in the Army. Sovereignty? Something best left up to people smarter than me, but if it ever happens I hope they still want our military there.

[QTCut5]

AMEN, brother...AMEN!

And thanks for sharing your knowledge...much appreciated.

Cheers & Aloha,

~Q~