Schrade knives

[stockman]

I have a few questions about Schrade. I was not to interested in them until I started reading and posting here at AAPK. I now have a few. I don't understand the pattern number system. I checked my books and did not find info on the three digit pattern number that is on the Schrade Waldens that I have. I did though find my knives in some of my books. I also wanted to know about tang stamps I found general information in Goins' on dates on Schrade Cut, Schrade Walden. I have some that are marked SchradeWalden NY and some that are marked Schrade Walden NY USA, if you can help thanks. I think probably that I have the right books but have not found the info yet. I also checked AAPK. Most of my knives are what is called Peach seed in my books.

Thanks Stockman

[msteele6]

If you go into the sticky that is at the head of this forum you will find a lot of info on Schrade knives. I don't know exactly what all is there since I collect mainly the old Schrade Cut. Co. knives (they never seem to have pattern numbers stamped and the tang stamp was discontinued in 1946) but after a brief look through, there seems to be an awful lot of useful info in that sticky.

[msteele6]

By the way, to access the info, go to the first post in the sticky (Bryan) and click on the link at the bottom of that post.

[stockman]

Most Schrade Walden knives were stamped with only 3 numbers, therefore the numbering system does not correspond with Schrade Cut Co.'s numbering system. This is stated in pg 206 Sargent's Number 1 and also in Sargent's Number 2 pg 396. This 3 number system is what I'am looking for.


Again thanks
Stockman

[lt632ret]

You have some valid and rightly confusing issues. First Schrade Walden NY is the oldest . This was used when the knives were made in Walden 1946 until 1956 approx. Sounds simple, well here we go . We will call these the Schrade Walden, Walden knives. After the move to Ellenville in 56 the USA tang was used They stopped using this marking in 72 however it was not until around 76 when all of this ( MARKED ) stock was used up.. We will call these the Schrade Walden Ulster knives. ( Since the move to Ellenville had Schrades being made in the Ulster Knife factory in Ellenville on Canal street ( Where Canal Street knives are now made ). Schrades and Ulster were both being made there at the same time. Now to further complicate the issue prior to 56 the USA version was also used in the Walden plant near the end. Also the Older version was used in Ellenville for a while ( at there beginning) . In the first case the newer mark was used in the older plant due to the beginning of retooling and changing over . After the move it was used until the retooling was complete and old stocks were used up.

The Schrade numbering system for the Schrade Cuts 03-46 approx is explained in the Russell reprint of the Schrade Catalogue for 1926 with supplements for 28,30,32,34,36,38. Or in the the original versions. Sargeant included as you mentioned in his I and II editions a catalogue with black and white photos of many but not all of the Schrade Cut and Schrade Walden knives. Many of these knives were from the Herman collection ( He is mentioned in Sargeants books ) Some of the people here know him and he a fine knowledgable man as well as an expert in the repair and assembly of these itemS. Eventually he sold his collection to Schrade and they became part of the Schrade factory collection . However you still want to know what the 3 digits mean well they ( for the most part) mean the same as the four did except they exclude the last digit which designated the type of handle. 1 cocobolo, 2ebony 3, bone stag 4, celluloid, 5 white bone, 6 mop, 7 stained bone 8, buffalo horn 9, misc.
The first digit represents the number of blades , the second and third the pattern or style. It would seem that after WWII they did not offer as many types of handles so the last number ( for the most part was dropped. ) I say for the most part because ( as was everything with Schrade ) this was not written in stone several models under Schrade Walden still carried four digits most of these were again knives which still offered alternative handle materials. One example of the four to 3 digit was the large 2973 in genuine stag under Schrade Cut or simple 297 under Schrade Walden but in peachseed jigged bone. The SS8764 was an example of a 4 digit Schrade Walden. Ah so then you ask well what is this letter stuff well that is another part of the system in this case it means Sterling silver. Also Under Schrade Walden fractions were eliminated these were used for blade variation on models under Schrade Cut. By going to this 3 digit system it also simplified the procedure of stamping the model numbers on the obverse of the main blade ( which apparently they decided at this point they wanted to do) later they incorporated the numbers into the tang stamps then they just eliminated them from some lines. It is all so simple kind of like doing brain surgery while under the influence of ludes. I am attaching a couple of pics which you probably have regarding Schrade Cuts but if you read it and take away the last digit and fractions study the prefixes and sufixes it should let you be able to determine fairly close the Schrade Walden counterpart. ERRR Most of the time. PS after the move in 56 Schrade wanted to move away from natural materials however bone versions marked USA were made in Ellenville ( SCHRADE WALDEN ULSTERS) until the stock of natural material ( from the old plant) was used up bone pearl ect. Some under USA in natural material were made in Walden ( SCHRADE WALDEN WALDENS ) before they left Walden. Some collectors do not understand this and want only the earlier NY stamping in natural materials. They by not knowing the history think the USA models fakes actually they are more rare having been made for less years. By 1960 Schrade was virtually all delrin, Wonda wood ( a wood substitute ) K horn ( a celluloid substitute ) Jigged delrin and all forms of plastics simulating the older natural materials in 59 the OT line was introduced sawcut delrin. The UH line was about 10 years later ( staglon imi stag ie delrin). Ah yes plastic was the wave of the future. In 76 they brought back bone in special editions ( prettier than plastic not as durable ). They used the same jigging they had used in the period from 56 until 59 when they were using up the old Walden natural materials. Now here is the really sad part I am so old I actually remember all this. Hope this helps ???? LT

[stockman]

LT, Thanks to you! This is good information. I could not find this in my books, it might be there I don't know. I always try to do my own research before asking for help but I was at a dead end on this. I have copied the information and put it with my knife books. I have several of the USA Waldens in peach seed bone and some in the NY stamping also some Cut Co. knives. Again Thanks for sharing you knowledge.

Stockman

[lt632ret]

Glad I could be of use. I have several myself. Good Hunting LT

[stockman]

Some pictures of Schrade Walden Knives. Top to bottom two whittlers, trapper, whittler, right farmers knife rat tail bolster and a stockman on the left.

Stockman

[ea42]

Several? Nice piece of Schrade history there LT, that timeline of the USA usage was news to me, very interesting.

Stockman, that's a damned nice grouping!

Eric

[upnorth]

Nice "peaches" stockman! The sweetest of Schrades!!

[LRV]

Stockman,
Not only does LT have a few books he's written a few as well.
The Schrade book is still available out there. AG Russell had a reprint done of the catalog and its addendums which can also be found somewhat more easily than the originals. I think Rich's picture is of one of the reprints.
These must be part of the Schrade collectors reference library as well as LT's address.
TTYL
Larry

[relodr36]

There's a copy of Russell's reprint of the Schrade catalog listed on eBay now.
I have one of the original Schrade catalogs but they are hard to find and pretty expensive.
Relodr

[orvet]

This topic has some excellent information on Schrade knives posted before we had a Schrade Specific forum.
Apparently I missed this topic when I moved all Schrade topics into the Schrade forum when it was created.

I am moving this topic to the Schrade forum where folks looking for Schrade information are more likely to find it.

[tongueriver]

Rich said that the move from Walden to Ellenville was in 1956. I had read somewhere earlier that the move was in 1958. Which is it? Anybody?

[orvet]

Good question Cal.
I have seen 1957 listed as the date of the fire in the Schrade factory.
It would seem logical that they moved after the fire, but hat is an assumption on my part.
I have used the 1958 date in some posts I believe and I have 1958 on my outline of Schrade history that I keep for personal reference.

I will ask Rich.

[lt632ret]

The plans for the move began in 56 that was when the writing was on the wall that switchblades would be made illegal. This was a major issue influencing the move. The celluloid fire simply was another part of expediting the planned move. Now for the record the first years issue considered to be from Ellenville was 1958. if you look at the displays that year you would see the the frame of the display for the Schrade and Ulster were basicly the same. Aside from the Schrade sw25 of which Ulster also used ( and imperial had a similar one ). The 58 display I refer to is the other table top ( other than sw25 ) that they used in 58. They are almost impossible to find due to the front transparent ( previously glass and later plexiglass ) was for that year actually a clear flexible plastic that cracked broke and was not sucessful. I have a set that i found over the years the Ulster is in the Wawarsing museum and the other is in my personal museum building ( since i am out of room at the museum. ). 58 is the transitional year of first ellenville issue. Although they were still using old stock in some cases. This history is not like a math problem nothing was done over nite and the reason things happened were not only not always planned but often were changed and or amended. LT

[tongueriver]

That is valuable information; thank you, Rich!

[orvet]

Thank you Rich!
That makes a lot of sense. History comes to life much more when you know the story behind the names, dates and places!

I had not considered the switchblade laws playing a part in the move but it is quite logical since Schrade produced so many switchblades in that time period.

Thank you for taking the time to post. I always learn something new when you make a post. The story behind the story is what makes your posts so interesting to me, and you are very adept at setting things into the historical context.

Thanks again!