Great eastern cutlery

[flynbulldog]

I'm confused. It seems the GEC makes a whole bunch of knives under a whole bunch of trademarks. Can anyone tell me what companies or what knife brands are made by GEC? and what offshoots are there? is Queen a GEC brand as well, are they the same factory and if not what brands are made by Queen? So far I think these are part of the GEC family:
Schat and Morgan
Tidioute
Northfield UnXld
Northwoods
Tuna casserole, Tuna town (or something like that)
I know there are a bunch more...

I really want to figure this out because it seems kinda pointless to just collect knives from the same factory under a bunch of different names. I have no problem with bringing these old names back from the grave but I'd like to know if the re-established name that I'm buying comes from GEC or Queen.

And while we're at it how do most of you guys feel about the quality of these brands? I have a couple of nice knives from them but the pull on some of them is stupid.

[treefarmer]

GEC uses several names as you mentioned but I'm pretty sure Queen is a totally separate company and Schatt & Morgan is part of Queen. Queen seems to be the maker of a lot of the "Case Classic" knives. Someone will be along soon that knows the answers.
Treefarmer

[edge213]

The answer is somewhat confusing. I will try to be brief.

GEC was founded in 2006 by Ken Daniels and Bill Howard (former employee of Queen). GEC owns the Tidioute and Northfield UnXLd trademarks. They make knives under all 3 names. GEC also makes knives for others.

Daniels purchased Queen (2011-2012). I don't think he has anything to do with GEC now. Queen also owns the Schatt & Morgan trademark. Queen makes knives in both names. Queen makes the newer Robeson knives for Ontario. This goes back to when Ontario and Queen were sister companies of Servtronics. Queen has made knives for others to many to mention.

The Tuna Valley name is owned by the Ken Daniels family. TV were made by GEC when Daniels was there now they are made by Queen.

Northwoods is owned by Derrick Bohn (Knivesshipfree.com). GEC made Northwoods but I believe Mr. Bohn also uses other manufacturers.

I hope this helps. I don't guarantee 100% accuracy, but I believe this to be true from my research.

Maybe others know better. All info appreciated.

[kootenay joe]

Great Eastern Cutlery is a new knife manufacturer that began making knives in 2006. They have 3 'lines':
Tidioute, 1095 steel, basic, no 'embellishments'
Northfield Un-X-LD, 1095 steel, fancy, swages on blades, grooved, pinched, etc. bolsters, premium handle material like Mammoth are options.
G.E.C. line are made with Stainless steel, 440C, and have an Acorn shield

GEC also makes knives for merchants who ask them to. Northwoods is an example of this. All but one of the recent generation of Northwoods knives were made by GEC

Queen Cutlery formed in 1922 and make both Queen branded knives and Schatt & Morgan knives. They too will make knives with other brandings at the request of mechants.

Both Queen & GEC are located in Titusville, PA.
kj

Edit to add: i was typing this while edge made his post above mine. We both say the same thing in slightly different ways, so reading both posts should make things clear.

[tongueriver]

A complete discussion of the SFOs would take awhile (and maybe it should?). Queen has made the Black Box Winchesters, and plenty for Mooremaker.
That's a start.

GEC made a few Bulldogs and Cripple Creeks, and yes, the Tuna Casseroles. Lots of knives for Charlie Campagna and the boys over at BladeForums. They made some for AAPK. That's a start.

[flynbulldog]

wow this is even more difficult than I thought. So what I'm reading is that there is no complete list of brands made by GEC and Queen. But even if a company has had knives made by either manufacturer that doesn't mean that all of the knives under that name are so.

Anybody care to start a list of names under each manufacturer? I think for historical reasons it might be smart to have a compendium of who makes knives for who...

Now what is the general consensus on quality? The ones I own are very nice. But, do you guys have other makers (besides $3k custom knives) that you think surpass them? For me, sometimes I have to take what I can get when searching for a specific pattern.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

I think GEC has the highest quality consistency of any factory manufacturer new or old. I believe part of that is because they make relatively small numbers of knives compared to every one else.

[jerryd6818]

This has been floating around for some time. This list is by no means comprehensive.
J.D.

A few companies that Queen has made knives for:
NOTE: This does not mean that the entire line of a company's knives were/are made by Queen - ie. Queen was/is not the sole manufacturer. For example, Parker now has the Bulldog Brand Knives made in Germany, but there were three patterns made in the U.S. by Queen.

Schatt & Morgan (In-house brand)
Robeson (In-house brand)
Old Hickory (In-house brand, 1970's)
Bluegrass Cutlery
Case Classics
Winchester Reproductions
Moore Maker (established 1985. Matador, Texas)
Marbles (Marbles Safety Axe Co.) Note: >now made in China<
NorthWoods (Marbles)
Scagel (Marbles)
John Primble
Bowie Corp.
Chris Tenney - Tenney Trading Co.
A.G. Russell
Cripple Creek (Blackjack)
Family Tree Series For Parker - Kinfolks, Platts, Standard Knife Company, Crandall
Bulldog Brand
Bowen Knife Co (1970's-1980's)
Bob White Cutlery (1970's)
Sargent/Sarco
Voyles Cutlery (1970's)
Kabar
Swanner Cutlery - Fairfield, Ohio
Sampson
Canal Street Cutlery, Ellenville, NY.

[flynbulldog]

Thank you Jerry I made a reference sheet of that for my records.

Now how about GEC?

[jmh58]

I think GEC has the highest quality consistency of any factory manufacturer new or old. I believe part of that is because they make relatively small numbers of knives compared to every one else.

I agree 100%.. CASE should only learn.. John

[JohnR]

Great Eastern in 2007 also made several hundred knives in various handle material under the Schrade name, I don't remember for who. They had very nice bone and blade etching.

[kootenay joe]

The Schrade "Fire & Ice" knives from 2006 or 07 ? were made for Stewart Taylor who bought Schrade USA & the rights to all the related brandings. These high quality GEC knives were ordered to bring honor to the Schrade name, i.e. the new owner showing his respect for Schrade and it's importance in USA cutlery history.
Came in 2 sizes, patterns 23 & 73, both of which have flush & square joints. They did not sell well and for a few years were priced at "$50 or Best Offer". Now they sell for ~ $100.
They might be the very first knives GEC made. Anyone know ?
What is a bit surprising for such early run knives is that they nailed it ! I have had about 10 of the Fire & Ice knives and not an issue with any of them.
kj

[Chase]

Jerry,

I am not sure that Queen made knives for Canal Street, I believe it was the other way around. Canal Street started out producing knives with Queen parts until they got their own working. I do know that Canal Street made several knives with the Queen Stamps for Queen as I actually have the Queen Version as well as the Canal Street versions of a few of these knives.

Just thought I should throw that out there!

Tom

[Quick Steel]

It may help clarify things a bit to compare all these brands to the food industry were private labels are common. Major knife companies like GEC or Queen have their own brands. For example Queen and and their Schatt & Morgan labels are their own company. But they also do "private label" contract work. Visit any major grocery store; in my neighborhood it would be Kroger. On the shelves will be famous national brands and right next to them the same items carrying a Kroger label. The famous brands do the private label packing for the private Kroger label.

Maybe my analogy will shed light on many of the relationships among knife companies....or not.

[jerryd6818]

Jerry,

I am not sure that Queen made knives for Canal Street, I believe it was the other way around. Canal Street started out producing knives with Queen parts until they got their own working. I do know that Canal Street made several knives with the Queen Stamps for Queen as I actually have the Queen Version as well as the Canal Street versions of a few of these knives.

Just thought I should throw that out there!

Tom

Tom, I didn't vet that list. It came from what I deemed a reliable source several years ago so you could well be correct.

[flynbulldog]

I think my point is to try to figure out what we are getting when we buy a rebranded knife. I have to wonder how these "old name - same factory" knives are quantified, do they build to a price point? Do they try to shoot for the highest quality while maintaining a factory production rate? Is it some sort of compromise, and how do we really know what that quality level is?

I've been just awestruck with the quality of full custom Tony Bose traditional folders. I just didnt realize that knives could be made to that level. But I'm certainly not able to spend $3000 for a stockman. So where can I get a knife that reaches for that brass ring but still only sets me back a few hundred dollars I' know its not possible but I'm trying to figure out how to put all of these brands into a category of quality.

It just seems to me if you buy any of these dozens of names brought back from the dead but still only made in two factories, that your basically getting the same thing with a different name... Is that assumption wrong? Look, I think Queen and GEC make beautiful products so I'm not bashing them, I'm just trying to find sources for something a little different.

[Dinadan]

It just seems to me if you buy any of these dozens of names brought back from the dead but still only made in two factories, that your basically getting the same thing with a different name... Is that assumption wrong? Look, I think Queen and GEC make beautiful products so I'm not bashing them, I'm just trying to find sources for something a little different.

Flynbulldog - I guess you have figured out by now that there is no easy answer! I have not noticed any quality difference between Queen and Schatt & Morgan: or between Tidioute and Northfield. So I suspect that you are dead on about getting the same thing with a different name. If I understand knife history correctly, in the past when a company had too many orders to fill in a timely fashion, they would sometimes have another company make a run of knives, so that you could have the same brand knife made by two different companies. I do not know if that happens these days or not.

I would be interested in seeing a complete list of current pocket knife factories located in the USA. Case, Queen, GEC, Utica, Bear ... who else? I think A G Russell makes some knifes here, but is his operation big enough to quality as a factory?

Referring to the names brought back from the dead, it seems that most of them are made in China. Probably in just a couple of factories?

By the way, if you collect Bulldog or Fight'n Rooster, the same factory (Olbertz in Germany) made many or maybe all of their knives not to mention some others. So you have pretty much the same situation there.

[Rookie]

I think people would say that a Northfield coming out of the GEC plant is better quality than a Tidioute coming out of the same GEC plant. But that may be due to all the extra detail put in, and not necessarily the fit and finish.

Same with the Queen factory. If Queen is their basic working level knife, the S&M brand is supposed to be their more top of the line. And they claim the Tuna Valley knives are even a step higher than that, due to small quantity runs and a 100% inspection of each knife at each stage.

Do you know if Buck knives are still US made, or are some of them coming in from Asia?

Also, FYI, the original Tuna Valley knives were made in Germany from 1905-1907, imported and sold by Case. The name was revived and knives were made by GEC from 2009-2012. When the Daniels took over the name, the knives were then made by Queen from 2012-present.

[Paladin]

,,,,,,,,,,,,Do you know if Buck knives are still US made, or are some of them coming in from Asia?

Some of Buck's line were made in China in the immediate past and I assume still are. Maybe OH will come in and give better details.

Ray

[kootenay joe]

flynbulldog, i understand your questions because years ago as a beginner i wanted to know the same things.
Knife manufacturers make knives to be as good as they are capable of. Neither the machines nor the workers are perfect so not all knives are created exactly equal even within a single run of knives.
GEC is doing an incredible job as nearly every knife comes out great. You can buy a GEC made knife online, i.e. without having been able to handle it, and about a 95% chance you will be thoroughly pleased.
One difference between different brands that is important but rarely mentioned is 'personality'. For example, all Queen made knives seem to have a similar overall 'feel' or 'energy' or 'personality'. And, this 'personality' is unique to each manufacturer (or custom maker).
After some exposure to various brands you find yourself drawn more towards a certain manufacturers knives so you buy more of those and always really like them.
For the difference in price of a $150 GEC to a $3000 custom, you don't really get that much more. Function, meaning ability to cut is the same. I have owned both and get just as much satisfaction and pride of ownership in the GEC knife as i do in the top end customs.
Buy GEC, you will be happy you did.
kj

[flynbulldog]

Thanks KJ and yeah I think you're 100% spot-on with my trying to figure this stuff out from a new guys perspective.

I have several knives from GEC and Case and I just got a couple from Queen as well. I absolutely understand about how these knives have a specific personality or feel to them. I kinda felt that way about them from the beginning. The bad part about that is - I like them all
I will admit that I have never held a high end custom knife like a tony bose so I cant speak to how those move me.
My wife bought me a mammoth and titanium Damascus William Henry for my birthday last year. Its an amazing knife but lockbacks have a different personality from slip joints so I don't really put it in the same category.

So right now the knives that give me the best feeling are some of the Case knives. This is a complete surprise to me because I've never been a big Case guy. I kinda figured that they are made by the truckload and sold in every dime-store and truck stop across the country so there's got to be something better out there from some of the more hands-on manufacturers. But so far they give me the best feeling. I cant explain it

[Railsplitter]

Thanks KJ and yeah I think you're 100% spot-on with my trying to figure this stuff out from a new guys perspective.

I have several knives from GEC and Case and I just got a couple from Queen as well. I absolutely understand about how these knives have a specific personality or feel to them. I kinda felt that way about them from the beginning. The bad part about that is - I like them all
I will admit that I have never held a high end custom knife like a tony bose so I cant speak to how those move me.
My wife bought me a mammoth and titanium Damascus William Henry for my birthday last year. Its an amazing knife but lockbacks have a different personality from slip joints so I don't really put it in the same category.

So right now the knives that give me the best feeling are some of the Case knives. This is a complete surprise to me because I've never been a big Case guy. I kinda figured that they are made by the truckload and sold in every dime-store and truck stop across the country so there's got to be something better out there from some of the more hands-on manufacturers. But so far they give me the best feeling. I cant explain it

You touched on the most important facet of knife collecting. A knife can have many different characteristics, both good and bad, but if it makes us feel good that's all that really matters.

Well said.

[flynbulldog]

I think we'd all like to think we make good choices and understand the history and the market for these knives, and in that case the measure of success is to make a few buck buying and selling (proving that you are indeed savvy). I hope I don't loose money on my purchases but I'm not getting into this to make money. These knives do speak to me in several ways but to me the most interesting aspect of these little pieces of art is the quest for perfection, the quality, the history, and most of all the integrity. That's why its so important to have natural handle materials and high quality brass and steels. The artistry of putting those things together into a functioning high performance tool that you can have with you every day and that somehow speaks to your character is also part of the fascination.

Pumping these things out in a Chinese factory with crap steel and fake materials merely for profit destroys the meaning and symbolism, that's why how, where, and why they are made is important. That's why I started this thread.

[kootenay joe]

flynbulldog your take on Chinese knives is not accurate. Yes there are very low end poorly made novelty type knives coming out of China, but there are also a great many exceptionally well made Chinese knives. If you know A.G. Russell knives many of his best folders are made in China and the fit and finish exceeds all other production knives, anywhere, worldwide. HanWei is one manufacturer that makes exquisite folding knives and they have their own proprietory steels (HS-1 & HS-2). Even at the 'low' end like Rough Rider knives, the F&F is very good and very rarely does a RR knife have any significant 'issues'. I fully field dressed a whitetail with an RR Trapper and it did the slickest job ever, better than my FB customs costing 10-25 times as much, and was still shaving sharp when done. It is not crap steel. On the more tactical side, SanRenMu makes folders as low priced as $10 that are well made, strong, sharp and hold up like a Sebenza.
If you have never experienced this for yourself it seems impossible, defies all logic. Well it does defy all logic but it is possible because great Chinese knives for as low as $10 exist and are Great. I do not see them as having much collector value but are fun to own and are top notch users.
kj

[jerryd6818]

I think we have a pretty good list (If not 100% accurate) of GEC brands
Anyone care to add to it? or maybe start a list of knives made by Queen?

If you're talking about the list I posted, that list is Queen, not GEC.

To me Queen is a conundrum. The knives Queen makes for other stamps feel different to me than do the ones they make for their own brand. I can't put my finger on it but they just "feel" like a better made knife and a more attractive pattern. Kind of like the girl in class that was a little bit better than average looking. The girl you wanted to date vs the gal that wasn't ugly or even homely but just plain looking, didn't stand out and blended into the background. Crazy, eh?