Another company sell out

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:18 pm

I don't know if anyone else has heard the news but I got an E-mail from a friend that said that Reminton Arms bought Marlin and all Marlin's rights as of Dec.31, 2007. We've done lost Winchester to over seas, lets all hope that Remington doesn't let Marlin fade away. The amout for the deal was undisclosed by both partys. It's unknown right now if Remington will manufacture any of the Marlin model firearms or if Remington bought Marlin just to eleminate another competator arms company. There is also an investigation into S&W happening now as well. Something about the top brass at S&W doing some insider trading in reference to the Thompson firearms company that S&W owns and has sold or is going to sell. A web search about this should give more info. I hope we don't lose any more American made firearms companys.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:39 am

It should be interesting to see if Remington picks up the L. C. Smith double barrel and does something with it (Marlin owned the trademark). Marlin made some Field Grade and less than 200 De Luxe Grade shotguns under the L C Smith name. L C Smith at one time was regarded as the finest shotgun made in America. Some still say it was the best. An estimated 92% of all that were made are in are in private collections. Mine was made in 1906 or 1907 depending on the source.

Lyman Cornelius Smith took over the company in 1880. The company was sold in 1888 to John Hunter (Hunter Arms) with the condition all shotguns have L. C. Smith stamped on them. L C Smith went on to make a typewriter Company, the L.C. Smith and Brothers Typewriter company.

All in all, it would be nice to see this one comeback, likely in the high dollar luxury market..

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:48 am

Marlin had the H&R brand name so, Remington has that one as well. I too would like to see the L.C. Smith doubles brought back but, if Rem. would have them made in Russia, like the Sparta model shotguns that they offer now, It would be better to leave the good reputation of L.C. Smith alone. The Russian made Sparta shotguns that are made for Rem. fall way short of the quality that one would exoect from Rem. Ruger is going to be the leader in American firearms do to producing new calibers like the .204 rifles and the newest .324 cal. blackhawk they're bringing out. Which BTW, will shoot the .32 short, long, and MAG. ammo. The customer service that Ruger offers is far beyond Rem. at this time. It also helps Ruger that Win. left American soil and Rem. is cutting corners with models like the 710 rifle. It's one thing to have an semi-auto rifle to jam or fail to feed but, when it happens in a bolt action rifle like the model 710, there is nothing to cause that except poor design and/or quality.

Rupe · Post by **Rupe** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:33 am

Duffy,
You'll be happy to know that the 710 has been discontinued. How its replacement, the 770, will perform is yet to be seen. Unfortunately "It features the same great action and barrel as our Model 710". Which means it it has the barrel set into the receiver instead of threaded.

Like knives, we're being forced to look to higher end, lower production companies like Kimber, Dakota Arms, Nesika, and others for the quality that Remington and others used to provide at fair prices. Fortunately, we still have Savage.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:04 am

You are so right Rupe. I'll tell you what, I've got to give credit where credit is due, for the money, the entery level Savage bolt guns are hard to beat. I can say that because I have 8 or 10 of the Savage model 110's in different calibers that range from about 10 years old to some that are the very old first introduced ones. All very accurate straight out of the box and no tweeking done to them. The higher end priced model 112's and a couple others are as good as any Rem., Ruger, and Win. rifles. I don't own any Savages with the newer accu-trigger and I've never tested the newer, lower end priced, Stevens model 200 center fire rifle so, I can't comment on them, good or bad. I would take any (including used ones) Savage bolt action rifle over a new in the box Rem. model 710 or the older Rem. model 742 and 740's . I would also take any of the Brazilian made shotguns over the Russian made Sparta model shotguns that Rem. offers. Believe it or not the Brazilian made shotguns are of better quality. Not better than the American made scatter guns but better than the Russian made for sure. In all truth, if Rem. doesn't change it's ways and start improving instead of down grading, then they are just swapping chairs on the titanic, in my opinion.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:01 pm

It's been a while since I messed with guns much but is Ruger still a 'good' one? I have a #1 that is just a fine rifle.

Speaking of Remington, in the 1970s, I had a Rem model 788. It was as plain as could be. Cheap but very accurate, right out of the box.

Dan97526 · Post by **Dan97526** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:17 pm

I agree with Rupe and Duffy. Thank goodness for Savage.

I hope Remington allows the Marlin product line to continue unchanged. I don't think the two companies competed in the same niche (levers and single-shots vs bolt actions, and little overlap in shotguns), so maybe they'll keep Marlin production as it is.

Still hate to see another fine old American company go under. I fear the direction we're headed.

Dan

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:15 pm

Paladin, the Ruger #1 is STILL a fine rifle and WILL be from now on. The Rem. 788's were all short action made rifles and were supposed to be a cheaper version of the Rem. model 700 as an option for the public. Problem with the model 788's was, they ended up being a lot better rifle than what it was meant to be. Which started to hurt the sales of the higher end models like the model 700. Today, the model 788 still finds favor with collectors and bench rest comp. shooters. The only down side to the model 788 is that Rem. stopped making replacement parts for it (magazines, bolts, barrels and such) but, alot of the parts can be found for it. You just have to look in alot of different places to get them. I had a model 788 in the .22-250 cal. but, I let a friend have it years ago. I sure would like to have it back because like you said, they were a very good rifle. Dan, I agree with you. I hope we don't loose another American company. The Marlin lever rifles were fine brush guns. Since the Win. lever rifles will never be made again, the Marlin would fill the gap. It would be nice if Rem. would continue the Marlin models as well as the other name brands that it now owns, as long as they were made with good quality in the good old U.S.A.

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:47 pm

Guess I'll put this fellow under wraps ( the covers

), until the smoke clears and we see what happens.

Bill

Rupe · Post by **Rupe** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:31 pm

El Lobo wrote:Guess I'll put this fellow under wraps ( the covers ), until the smoke clears and we see what happens.

Bill

Its already worth more now that Winchester has been sold off and production has stopped. The used Winchester leverguns experienced a spike in prices after the closure. Marlin leverguns followed suit as the dealers (at least around here) could demand more and the ever popular Win 94 that used to be a $200 rifle was now a $400 rifle. Why charge $200 for a used Marlin 336 when $300 is still cheaper than anything else available.

I bought two Winchester 94's over the past few years. One was a pretty much unused 1999 production. The other was a 1979 with some slight rust outside but new inside. I paid $175 for the first, $200 for the second. Today I can't find them for double that.

I'm sure we'll hear the term "Pre-Remington" to describe Marlins in order to charge more for the used ones. Just as "Pre-'64" fetches a premium with Winchesters and "Pre-Ban" did with military style rifles.

I'll hold on to my 94's 'til I can trade one even-up for an AR-15.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:33 pm

That's a nice one Bill

The value doesn't have anywhere else to go but up for them. Even if Rem. does continue to manufacture them, you still have a pre-Remington Marlin. I know everthing with a barrel on it that carrys the Winchester brand name has went higher since Win. closed. There was talk of a non-American made model 70 rifle and a model 1300 pump action shotgun to be put out with the Win. name on it but, they will have the barrels made in Japan, all the wood in Italy, and the receiver and other parts made from Spain as well as other countrys. It's supposed to be stamped as Belgium made. Kind of a Heinz 57 firearm. Not the American quality the we're use to from Win. It's anybodys guess as to what will happen in the futrue with these companys. I think it's a shame that some American companys didn't have the nerve to try to at least keep Win. in the U.S.A. What's next? Our apple pie will be made in Mexico, our baseballs will be made in china (full of lead), our hotdogs will come from Pakastan(I don't want to know what they will be full of), and Chevorlet, well they've already abandoned us. I repeat someone else's statement, "I don't like where we're headed!"

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:45 pm

Sounds like we're on the same page on this topic, Rupe. I like the way you think.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:37 pm

Duffy wrote:Sounds like we're on the same page on this topic, Rupe. I like the way you think.

I agree and the Rem. 788 was a darn good one. I got one around 1970 in .308Win and the only little problem I had was when I used military brass I had to buy a minimum spec set of dies from RCBS. Military brass was thicker and I couldn't chamber a round using standard dies. Standard dies worked just fine with factory brass. Since it was so plain it became my brush buster.

I owned several Rem. 700's in several calibers and 2 Ruger 77's in .300Win mag and .270.

All these rifles were just great tack drivers along with a Remington 7400 semi-auto that was a surprisingly good good shooter.

I also had a Marlin 336 in .30/30 which was my original brush buster and a .22 rimfire lever action.

I also had a Winchestor 94 .25-35 with an octagon rifle Barrel made in 1895 by serial number that I took my first deer with. I also had an old .25-20 and a .30-30.

I sold most of my old Savage Rifles, I still have a model 1903, an oddball slide action with a clip. It was recently appraised for $500 to $600.00 and it is still a good .22 rimfire shooter.

All in all, I never had any troubles with any of these rifles but the Rugers and Remingtons always felt good to shoot and are always dependable. I do hate to see Marlin go down, but I hope some good can come out of it.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:41 pm

I know that alot of people won't agree with me about this but, the Rem. model 7400 is a better designed rifle than the older model 740 and 742's. The 740 and 742 models didn't get the nick name of Jammomatics for nothing. But, to Rem.'s credit, they did find the fault with those models and fixed it. That's where the model 7400 came from. They just added the new model number because it was easier than putting NEW & IMPROVED on a newly designed model and using the former model number.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:42 pm

That Remington 7400 really surprised me, not only did I find it fast handling but a tack driver as well. I shot it all the time and what I bought as a brush buster ended up as my primary rifle for California's "A" zone. I ended up putting a Leupold Vari-X 2 or 3, whatever it was in in 1984 or so, a 3 to 9x. Great scope, and rifle combination, I ended up setting it to be dead on at 300 yds, almost 3 inches high at 100 yds with 150 gr, Nosler partitions. Almost all were 1 shot kills and one at 425 yds right through the heart in a kneeling position. I know the exact yardage of that one cause my brother was fooling with his new range finder.

The downside is the 2 shot kills, I got so fast with it I could put a second bullet in the rib cage before the deer would drop. He was dead but not down yet.

That's the primary reason I sold it, that and the action would freeze up in extreme weather when it got wet that was out of state. (likely to happen with most semi-autos)

I killed a lot of deer with that 7400 and punched a lot of paper and it never failed me in the "A" zone in 20 years. But, I grew tired of that fast second shot in an already dead deer.

By the way, this is the rifle I bought from Best Buy in San Jose, CA, home of the Geek Squad. They don't sell guns anymore, mostly computers which were mostly an idea at that time.

Know your gun and respect your quarry!

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:41 pm

The best way that I've found to use any semi-auto in very cold weather is to DE-OIL it before ever leaving camp. Electrical or brake parts spray works good for this. Spray only the action, not the inside of the barrel. Just don't get any on the wood. No liquids in the action= no frozen gun. You can and should always clean and re-oil the rifle after getting back to camp. Another trick we use was to put the rifle in the bed of the truck for about 30-40 minutes (while your in the warm cab with the heater going), then get out and work the action and dry fire it to see that it hasn't froze up. That has worked in weather being -19 below 0. It did get to +9 degree's one day that season and we all were laying on the hoods of our trucks like groundhogs sunning. I have quite a few semi-auto rifles and have owned alot more but, as I got older and mellowed out I got more into the 1 shot mind set and away from the old spray and pray style of shooting. All I've used in the last 15-20 years are bolt actions or single shots like the #1 and #3 Rugers. Haven't had to shoot more than once at anything I was hunting. The biggest problem I get with the 7400 is the barrel being worn out. Some guys will put a 10 round mag. in them and shoot them like a M-16. The Rem. semi-auto's weren't made to be shot like that. When the rifle has been shot like that before, the first shot will be dead on target and as the barrel heats up the bullets go everywhere, up, down, or to either side. The only fix for it then is a re-barrel job.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:04 am

I never saw no sense in a big clip, though I did get into a bad habit of firing a second shot if it didn't drop right away.

I just stick with the Remington 700 and Rugers these days. I never fired more than 2 shots, typically one.

BUT, I do occasionally enjoy the the allure of a Tompson Center Hawken in a .50 caliber cap kit. Something special about a smokepole that you put together and finish even if it is a kit.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:26 am

The second follow up shot isn't a bad thing Hukk, in all truth it's hard for alot of people to master doing that on a moving target. 2 shots up to 5 shots fired as fast as a person can squeeze the trigger would be OK with the Rem. semi-auto's, if allowed to cool down for a moment after the shots. It's the Rambo's with banana clips that destroy a good rifle barrel. The black powder smoke poles are alot of fun too. If a conversion from cap to 209 shotgun primers is done to one, you wouldn't believe how much that will tighten your groups up. The hotter fire, which burns more of the powder than a cap, and less delay in ignition of the powder, make a world of difference in the group size. BTW, is your Rem. 700 the newer style bolt and safety or the older style? The reason I ask is, I have a few 700's older and new, and the newer 700's have the GOD awfullest trigger pull that I've ever seen on production rifles. Very few can be adjusted down to where they're smooth and have a lighter pull, let alone getting the creep and over travel out of them. The best fix for them is to buy a Timney after market trigger assembley and put in them. I guess too many law suits filed against the firearms companys has them all afraid to have a light, good & smooth trigger pull on all their newer models. I say that "I" have all these guns but really I gave them all to my 2 sons so, "they" have them. That's why I got interested in pocket knives. But I know they will end up with all of them too. Both sons know the good from the bad in guns pretty well so, I'm going to throw them a curve ball and see what and how fast they can learn about knives. Hey, it's only fair. They threw me a curve by starting me on a computer when I didn't even know how to turn one on. They learn faster than I do though.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:52 am

All my 700's are 1980's models. Once I learn how a rifle shoots under all conditions, I really hate to give it up. Yeah, a follow up shot is good, but I always thought of it as a waste when I find the entry holes an inch or 2 apart. I just figured he didn't know he was supposed to be dead.

They all have a nice smooth pull on the light side, just how I like it. I let my gunsmith "tune everything up" so to speak. I used to work on my guns in the 70's, but there is not enough time to do everything I want to do. So, some stuff just goes to my trusted experts.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:18 am

Kool, you've got the older style.

A better rifle in my eyes. You shouldn't have any problems with them. The Rugers triggers were never set up to be adjustable. But then again, they were never so heavy that it almost took both hands to pull the trigger like the newer Rem.'s are.