J.Primble/Belknap/Germany 5373

[kootenay joe]

Here is a 3 1/2" Premium Jack, well made, very attractive and marked: "J.Primble/Belknap/Germany" on front tang and "5373" on the back.
I do not understand the various Primble Belknap markings. Is this a 'real' Primble Belknap knife or an unauthorized use of their name ?
If 'real' do you know when the Primble Belknap Germany knives were made ?
Thanks for the help,
kj

[rangerbluedog]

If I recall correctly, Belknap never manufactured their own Primble knives. The were all made by other companies.
Boker made a lot of these. If there is a star stamped above the pattern number it was made by Boker.

[kootenay joe]

Thank you Blue. No star, just "5373".
kj

[tongueriver]

No doubt someone more knowledgeable than I will chime in, but somehow I am thinking that Jim Parker had Primble knives made in Germany. He owned a good many old names and was not bashful about using them. Meanwhile, I also somehow think that the older Primble knives with the star stamp were made by Boker USA, not Boker Solingen, and these were all knives sold by the original Primble hardware company.

[olderdogs1]

That doesn't look like a Parker knife to me. As I understand it Belknap would let the contract go to the lowest bidder. I would say Solingen, Germany but not sure who made it. As has been said previously if Boker made it it would probably have the star. Looks like the shield is pinned, not Parkerish.

Tom

[knifeaholic]

Parker never owned or used the Primble trademark. Bluegrass Cutlery of Manchester OH purchased the Belknap and John Primble brands and all trademarks after Belknap Hardware Co ceased operation in the 1980's. That was long before Parker started his trademark games.

Bluegrass Cutlery has had John Primble knives made in the USA by Queen and Utica and in China, but as far as I know never in Germany.

The posted knife was made in Germany in the 1950's or 60's on contract for Belknap. As to who made it I do not know, but I have seen other Primbles of that era with the Germany stamp.

As others have said, Belknap used many companies to make their knives. In fact Case made some in the 1940's.

As far as I know, the only Primble knives with the star on the back tang were those made by Boker USA in their Maplewood, NJ plant.

[kootenay joe]

Wow ! thanks to all and especially Steve for knowing this knife and the Belknap history.
Amazing; instead of this being a relatively recent fake, it is an original Belknap made about 60 years ago.
It has such a quality feel in hand, the kind you don't want to put down. There were many smaller knife manufacturers in Solingen in the 1950's most of which were gone by 1970's, so it is not possible or even meaningful, to know which one made this knife.
kj

[rangerbluedog]

No doubt someone more knowledgeable than I will chime in, but somehow I am thinking that Jim Parker had Primble knives made in Germany. He owned a good many old names and was not bashful about using them. Meanwhile, I also somehow think that the older Primble knives with the star stamp were made by Boker USA, not Boker Solingen, and these were all knives sold by the original Primble hardware company.

You are right Cal, I had forgotten about that

[btrwtr]

The first thing that strikes me as peculiar about this knife is that it is a single blade jack in a very unusual frame for a single blade jack knife. Other than Barlows, boy's knives, toothpicks and folding hunters not many companies made other pattern single blade jacks so I always look closely at such knives.

The pattern number 5373 is a legitimate number for a 3 3/8" 3 blade stockman knife. I believe the blade is a real old Primble Germany blade. Not sure about the frame but it looks unusual for a Primble knife and the shield would be better suited to accompany a Schrade knife.

[kootenay joe]

I just checked the length. It is 3 3/8" not 3 1/2" as i had posted above. It is possible that this is the frame for a 5373 and the correct master blade was used, and perhaps assembled from left over parts ? Could have been done soon after a run of 5373, or many years later when the unknown manufacturer was going out of business. From 1950-1970's quite a few old Solingen knife manufacturers closed permanently.
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

My recollection from being a John Primble collector, briefly, is they imported knives from Germany for one year, 1956.

I had a bone handled 4" premium stockman that was so marked in my collection.

Several years after I had sold all my Primbles, a bone handled premium stockman showed up on Ebay in evidently mint condition.

I bought it for considerably less than what it should have been worth with the idea of flipping it for a profit.

When I got the knife, it just looked too good to be true. I showed it to a couple of very reputable dealers and both declared it to be fake. One even claimed he knew who was importing them, but would not divulge the name.

The seller was a well known and respected knife dealer, whose son, I believe, is an AAPK member. I contacted him and he provided a full refund and destroyed the knife.

Whether any of that bears, at all, on the OP knife, I cannot say.

Charlie Noyes

[kootenay joe]

Charlie, was this fake Premium Stock knife marked "Germany" ? I assume so as you say "importing".
Because Primble only imported from Germany for one year these knives are not as collectible as the Primble USA knives. (ref.: BRL, threshold number needed to become a collectible). So why have them faked ? If mine is a fake i bet it is as well made, or better, than an original 1956 Primble, Germany knife. This is not a cheaply made knife so i can't see much profit in it if fake.
Note: i am not trying to defend this knife as an original. I am just mulling over the oddity of it all in the hopes that someone might shed more light on this knife or Primble Germany knives in general.
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

Cannot speak for to today's market, but when I was buying Primbles, I paid more for that German import than I did for any other Primble knife I had.

Charlie

[mrwatch]

Here is a my recently departed father in law's Primble knife. He was 93. I seen it on the window sill and used a pencil to give it a good cleaning for him. I hope it will be available.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Roland, I concur with Charlie and Steve that this knife is Legitimate 1950's Era knife. The Germany made Primbles are certainly more scarce than other Primbles and most of the time bring more $$.
Great looking & Scarce knife by the way. I am pretty sure those are Horn handles too.
Kind Regards,
Mark

[btrwtr]

The blade is legitimate but I doubt the knife is.

I believe this is a blade from a Primble 3 blade stockman pattern knife. The frame would be normal for a multi-blade knife but it is far from normal for a single blade jack knife. How many small, serpentine, single blade jacks have you seen? Not saying they aren't out there but the pattern would be quite unusual.

Maybe this knife had a broken back spring that made that 2 secondary blades useless and the knife was reduced to a single blade. Maybe that knife was cobbled from leftover factory parts.

Here is a picture of a Primble 5373 stockman. Looks like the same type blade as the OP knife to me.

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Wayne, I certainly take your thoughts in High Regards Sir. But its not really that unusual coming from Germany. Yes I certainly agree that the pattern is Scarce for a USA maker but not for German, IMHO. I have owned a few similar to this knife in my past. I do find it Unusual there is no blade etch either on this piece and I notice the center pin is not spun,,,I am not sure if this leads us anywhere,,,Just my observations!! It very well could be a put together knife since the center pin is not spun?? One would have to look on the inside liners also to see if any extra holes exist and if the liners match the pins in retrospect of the same steel?? The handles sure look like 50's period horn to me
Kind Regards,
Mark

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Guys, One more thing to add to this Wonderful thread!!! You honestly just never know what you may come across in searching for oddities with Primble knives. I let this particular piece get away from me several years ago but I kept the pics because it was a Neat/Unusual piece too me.

A.F Shapleigh stamping on master w/ D-E Prussia on back. Secondary blade has John Primble I.S.W. Also notice the "Pebble stag" handles that we normally see on German made pocket knives. I take note there is a salesman sample# on this knife and indeed 2 Different hardware stampings,,,I feel this was done on purpose BUT to this day I have NEVER seen another 2 different hardware stampings on the same knife. Pretty wild huh

Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Very interesting points are being made in analyzing this German made knife. I am away from home at present but when back in a few days time i will look at liners to see if there are unused pin holes, etc. I can say that this 'Primble' 5375 is a beautifully made knife, not a 'hack job' at all. It is the work of a skilled cutler.
Wayne thanks for finding the catalog image of the Primble 5375, and thank you Mark as well. I appreciate you sharing your 'knifer' knowledge.
kj

[ratlesnake75]

Its certainly my Pleasure!! I adore your knife and cant wait for you to observe it more closely. The reason why I am bringing up the "Center pin being spun" is I just dont know if its normal or not,,,,FOR GERMANY made knives. I havent studied GERMANY made knives like I have US made ones so this is a learning experience for me also.
Kind Regards,
mark

[btrwtr]

My initial statement "The first thing that strikes me as peculiar about this knife is that it is a single blade jack in a very unusual frame for a single blade jack knife. Other than Barlows, boy's knives, toothpicks and folding hunters not many companies made other pattern single blade jacks so I always look closely at such knives." is one that I believe in. Certainly there are additional common single blade jack patterns but this smaller serpentine frame is not one of them regardless of country of manufacture. The frame of this knife is one that I would associate with a multi blade knife. Many times I have seen single blade jacks in uncommon frames that I was certain had been altered for one reason or another.

The OP knife does appear to be very well put together and a nice knife. It was assembled by a person of some skill. Setting pins in grooved bolsters is more challenging than setting them in flat or rounded bolsters.

The handles look to be synthetic/plastic to me but I am sure KJ can tell us what they are.

Here is a catalog cut of a Primble designated as 5373S. Different configuration but still a 3 3/8" serpentine stockman. I believe this is an older knife than the OP or previous book cut I posted.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Just to clear things a bit, I never stated that I thought the OP knife was a genuine 1950's German import John Primble by Belknap Hardware.

I have no opinion as to its authenticity.

I did state the possibility of it being fake, as I have had a fake "Primble" purporting to be such a mid-50's knife.

Charlie Noyes

[ratlesnake75]

Sorry Charlie your right bro. My mistake
Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Shield pin is visible on inside of liner. The 4 handle pins are all smaller than the holes in the liners. Actually the pins are not small, it's the holes that are too large so there is a gap all around the pin end. I have never seen this before. There are no other holes. Despite the gaps around the handle pins both handles are solidly affixed to the liners.
Handles: the look like shiny black plastic but with a loupe the edge shows it to be made of irregular layers like one might see with horn. But i have never seen pure black shiny horn so i am unsure as to which this is.
Could the over sized holes be from over drilling the original handle pins to change the handle pieces ?
kj

[btrwtr]

Shield pin is visible on inside of liner. The 4 handle pins are all smaller than the holes in the liners. Actually the pins are not small, it's the holes that are too large so there is a gap all around the pin end. I have never seen this before. There are no other holes. Despite the gaps around the handle pins both handles are solidly affixed to the liners.
Handles: the look like shiny black plastic but with a loupe the edge shows it to be made of irregular layers like one might see with horn. But i have never seen pure black shiny horn so i am unsure as to which this is.
Could the over sized holes be from over drilling the original handle pins to change the handle pieces ?
kj

kj I am unsure what to make of the oversize pin holes. Normally disassembling a knife wouldn't require drilling out the handle pins. The pins look to protrude from the handle material and also look to be peened which is odd for smooth handle material. Normally I think they would be peened and ground flush with the handles. Are the handle end pins actually flush?

I still think your knife has an original Primble Germany blade but am unsure of what to make of the rest of the knife. I don't believe the frame was intended to house a single clip blade. Best guess is the knife is not a factory finished stock product but was assembled by someone to use available parts. At any rate it is still a nice looking knife and would be a great potential user.