Russell Dogleg Jack

[kootenay joe]

Here is a 3 3/8" Dogleg Jack with tight grain dark wood handles, possibly cocobolo. The tang marking on master is "RUSSEL" over "R" with a diamond shape before and after, over USA. Secondary has similar markings but i can only see "Russ" in top line.
I know that J. Russell of Green River Works fame is a marking often used by those who make fake knives.
I can see no evidence of a "J" or the second "L" in Russell.
Blade action seems normal.
Is this a real J. Russell pocket knife ?
kj

[BWT]

Sorry KJ, wish I could help but I'm the wrong person for that. I just wanted to tell you it sure is a good looking knife.

[alabama]

I'm not a Russell expert but the best deal I ever got on knives-yard sale in cinti. oh-27 russells in very good shape-(except 1) for 25 dollars each-only 4 barlows-- 2 were unsharpened boy of America cheapies-many other patterns including one that looked like yours-bob mayes local knife guy-published author-looked at them and said they were authentic...1980s----of course one of the barlows was a wore out daddy barlow with a nail head pin.

[just bob]

Roland I don't think you have a knife collection I think you have a museum. A lot of nice items to look at for sure! I have a lot of Russell Barlow knives and from what little I know about them I think the tang stamp helps to determine the date a knife was made. I'm pretty sure the straight line Russell's are the oldest. I also feel certain the tang stamps on the Barlow are different from the other folding knives, for the most part. At one time I had a knife like yours and gave it away to someone that wanted it. Based on what I see I think there is a 99.9% chance your knife is an HOK. Here is a picture from the Russell book and also an old ebay auction. Again I think the tang stamp determines the age of the knife and when you see the same pattern with a different stamp the knife is from a different era.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Pocket ... 7675.l2557

[kootenay joe]

JB, thanks for your post. The catalog pictures show that my knife appears to be a correct J.Russell pattern. The ebay link shows they made this knife for many years as it has "Russell" in a straight line not slightly arched.
kj

[LongBlade]

Looks real to me KJ - just looks to be cleaned pretty aggressively but just my opinion... Curved Russell stamps with USA on bottom are dated 1933-1941...

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Lee. Definitely it has had some buffing which made me a bit suspicious of it being a re-work. Pleased to now know it is an original J.Russell knife and even though buffed, it is still a pretty 'neat' knife: beautiful curves, rare shield and excellent wood that i first thought to be ebony but with a loupe i can see dark brown swirls in the grain, so i think it is cocobolo and beautiful pieces.
I am selling most of my knives but will keep this one. It is good example of an older high quality USA made pocket knife.
kj

[LongBlade]

Thanks KJ - it is a nice knife as an example... I do think it may be ebony just based on photos - to me cocobolo is more dark to light brown with darker black striping in the best of cases... unless it is so muted you can only see it with the mag as you noted...

[RobesonsRme.com]

Roland, are you certain of the 3 3/8" closed length you posted?

The catalog illustrations state 3 1/2 inches for the clip blade version and 3 3/4 inches for the spear.

It also states they were available with iron or brass liners.

Handle options were ebony, coca-bola, "Model" stag and genuine stag.

Charlie Noyes

[kootenay joe]

Thank you Charlie for checking this knife. Using calipers i get 3 7/16", smack in the middle between 3 3/8" and 3 1/2".
Liners are brass and the wood is not ebony, i am fairly sure. The wood is dark but has a slight maroon color to it (more so on back side). I have many ebony handled knives and this wood is different from those.
How common is it for a knife to be 1/16" off from catalog size ? I have seen this a few times but it might be more common than this.
It is the liners that give length. If there is a disparity does this mean liner jig was slightly off ? Or, how else might it be explained ? I doubt a manufacturer sets out to make a knife 3 7/16", when 3 3/8" and 3 1/2" are recognized sizes.
kj

[LongBlade]

KJ - I didn't doubt that it may be cocobolo - only that the photos didn't allow a close enough look nor the true color... like you I have seen some cocobolo that is quite dark and guess it may be dependent upon where the wood originated - I do think there were many species of cocobolo and ebony as well with some differences in appearance. As to knife length - I have also seen many knives +/- 1/16 to 1/8" different than reported closed lengths - I always assumed it was because of the hand made character of the old knives and not being knocked out of a mold

[kootenay joe]

Looking at the ends of this knife, the brass liners extend exactly equal in length to the bolsters. I think liners are stamped out of a sheet of brass, so the stamping die must have been 3 7/16" long. The 'hand made' factor has no effect on the length of this knife. Could be different with other knives, maybe.
kj

[LongBlade]

Kj - Hand assembled or hand made ? .... Actually I think when one adds up all that makes up the closed knife length (in this case 2 bolsters, and a liner) that a little here and there can easily add up to a 1/16" especially when the finishers were working their magic

[kootenay joe]

LB, in this knife the liners go right to end of the bolsters. If you took this knife apart and measured just the 3 liners, each would measure exactly 3 7/16". The bolster edges do no project even i angstrom beyond the liners.
My question is: why did the liners come out as 3 7/16" instead of 3 1/2" ? Could 1/16" of length be removed by factory buffing after knife was built ?
kj

[LongBlade]

I think that was my point Kj about the finishers doing their magic - the finishers in buffing the near final product easily could have taken off that amount - think about 1/32" on either end which would not be hard to do... if the liners were stamped as you noted I am sure there were rough edges that needing some buffing...

[RobesonsRme.com]

They polish and round off the ends of a knife in final polishing.

Unless they start with stock that is a bit longer than the desired length, a worker could easily remove 1/16 ".

Charlie

[kootenay joe]

"a worker could easily remove 1/16 " "
Then my knife is the 3 1/2" size, not 3 3/8" that i posted.
kj

[ratlesnake75]

Hey Roland, Hold on to that knife for me Bro. I will buy it
Kind Regards,
Mark

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Mark but i am wanting to keep this one, at least for the next little while.
kj

[ObsidianEdge]

That's a sweet knife Roland. Congrats.

[kootenay joe]

Thank you Mike. It is a most pleasing knife, visually and in hand feel. No matter how well made a knife is, it is the design that makes a knife desirable.
It would be great if GEC were to reproduce this design.
kj