Starting to collect

A place to discuss military related knives and tools. Conversation relating to objects of war and peace from all eras welcome.
cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Tue May 15, 2018 10:38 pm

Nope, U.S. Western tip of the Florida panhandle. Been collecting British and Commonwealth militaria for about 45 years or so. Used to spend a lot of time on the military section of the British Blades forum before it disappeared.

Miller Bro's
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Miller Bro's » Tue May 15, 2018 11:31 pm

I was wondering what happened to that forum ::shrug::

Too bad it's gone a lot of good information/knives posted there. Anyone have a clue what happened?

Here's a few knives I have you might like.
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s-l1600 70_zpsyd2ujivv 1_zpssburntum.jpg
MVC-088S.jpg
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cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Wed May 16, 2018 12:50 am

Those are some great knives.

I hope asigarza will forgive the hijacking of this thread.

From the bottom up, nice pair of Admiralty 301s that look like they have been there, done that and served well.

The next one looks like the like the Clarke and Shirley on the 2nd row up in my group picture. Mine has the maker on one side of the ricasso and W/|\D 1 on the other. Any markings on yours?

I've seen pictures of the British made USN rope knives but never in the flesh. Any idea of the time period for these?

The Camillus is a beauty. I'm guessing late 1800's, early 1900's? They made some wonderful knives in that time.

Now comes the one that is part of a bigger puzzle I'm working. Your Keen Kutter knife appears to be dead on for the British 8173/1914 pattern. E.C. Simmons also made a dead on 6353/1905 pattern knife. I have two that are exact to the specs and one with a variant tin opener.

I have been researching Canadian contracts for clasp knives in WWI. I know that there were contracts with Camillus and Schatt & Morgen to the tune of 100K to 150K knives each (my papers are at work so I'm going by memory). They also contracted with Thomas Turner and George Wostenholm.

So far I have pretty good documentation for the years 1915-1919. What I'm missing is information on the knives purchased from August 1914 to about March of 1915. It was somewhere on the order of 250K knives. I'm pretty sure some were bought from Turner.

Where do these Keen Kutter knives that match exactly to a British War Department specification come in? The Camillus and S&M 6353s in my collection are marked with the C/|\ Canadian property mark on the spike. None of the Keen Kutters are, although one is marked on the scale to a military balloon unit. I'm still trying to determine if the unit is British/Commonwealth or U.S.

I can't find a Canadian contract for them. I'm trying to fin d owners of Keen Kutter catalogs for the war years to see if they are listed there. I've heard from a 1914 catalog owner and they're not in that year's edition.

Any light you can shed on this is appreciated.

Miller Bro's
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Miller Bro's » Wed May 16, 2018 2:04 am

cottage hill bill wrote:The next one looks like the like the Clarke and Shirley on the 2nd row up in my group picture. Mine has the maker on one side of the ricasso and W/|\D 1 on the other. Any markings on yours?
Yes, makers name on the mark side and a little different on the pile side in that it has a number 2 instead of number 1
W/|\D 2, what does this mean?
cottage hill bill wrote:I've seen pictures of the British made USN rope knives but never in the flesh. Any idea of the time period for these?
From what I have seen these started appearing around the end of the civil war and were plentiful during the Spanish American War.
cottage hill bill wrote:The Camillus is a beauty. I'm guessing late 1800's, early 1900's? They made some wonderful knives in that time.
According to the tang stamp it would date to WWI era or later.
cottage hill bill wrote: I can't find a Canadian contract for them. I'm trying to fin d owners of Keen Kutter catalogs for the war years to see if they are listed there. I've heard from a 1914 catalog owner and they're not in that year's edition.

Any light you can shed on this is appreciated.
Interesting, I do have an old Keen Cutter catalog. I will have to find it and see if they are in there.
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cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Wed May 16, 2018 2:43 pm

WD stands for War Department, the name of the british department of defense from 1855 to 1964. Prior to 1855 it was BO for Board of Ordnance and post 1964 MOD for ministry of defense. The /|\, referred to as a broad arrow or crows foot is the british government property mark. It is used by all branches of government not just the military. Civilian convict clothing was at one time marked with large broadarrows. So are survey markers and all sorts of things. It means this thing belongs to the crown. The number is either an inspector or the depot where the inspection was done (that's a semi-educated guess). W/|\D 1 means your knife was issued to the army. A navy knife would be marked N/|\.

We know a new model knife with sheep's foot blade and marlin spike appeared sometime during the Second Boer War 1899-1902. That means that until I learn more the most I can say is your knife is army issue sometime between 1855 and 1899.

What are the dimensions of your Keen Kutter?

asigarza
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by asigarza » Wed May 16, 2018 3:01 pm

Thanks Bill for your time and the answer.

The knives with a big sheep foot blade were made by an old vanished factory in Buenos Aires, they made with differents names "Navio" "Biselcorte" "El Rodeo" with its own model. They provide Argentine Navy with knives marked "Armada Argentina"
This pics shows the same knife under different names
ARG1C.jpg
ARG1D.jpg
ARG1O.jpg

ARG2C.jpg
ARG2D.jpg
ARG2O.jpg
ARAG3C.jpg
ARG3D.jpg
ARG3O.jpg
ARG4D.jpg

Thanks again for your time!
Best wishes
cottage hill bill wrote:Nice collection. The first one, the ABL is a Belgian copy of the British WWII knife. Right after WWII Belgium used a lot of British equipment until they could make their own which was modeled on the British gear. This knife is a direct copy, very well made.

The next one is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears to be dated 1926? It looks like the Brit WWII but the date is too early. The earliest British army knife of the WWII pattern I've seen is 1939.
The Jos. Allen with the wood scales must be a commercial version.
The next, big sheep's foot with wood scales - does that say Argentina? Nice.
The ATKC is in great condition. Atkinson is a maker I haven't seen before. Are there any other markings on it?
CAM53C looks like a Canadian contract Camillus 6353/1905. On the spike it may be stamped with a C surrounding a broadarrow /|\. That is the Canadian government property mark. Should also have a three or four line stamp on the ricasso including 1915. One of my favorite knives.
The Ibberson is a WWII British army knife. The /|\ above the fiddle in the markings is the British government property mark.
I see you've got an M&D Canada. These were made by Thomas Turner cultler in England under contract for Canada in WWI.
The NAPOL and VISCO I believe are Italian military issue. The giveaway is the fine checkering on the scales.
The NONXLL (none excel) and the Rogers are WWII Seaman's knives. Does the Rogers have a smooth place on one scale? It was a place to stamp a service man's number
XXXX is a typical WWII British army knife. There should be a maker's name and maybe a date on the ricasso on one of the blades.

I can't comment on the commercial knives as they are outside my area of experience. You've got some nice ones though and a great start on a collection.

Best of luck and Good Hunting.

Miller Bro's
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Miller Bro's » Sat May 19, 2018 12:45 am

cottage hill bill wrote:What are the dimensions of your Keen Kutter?
Sorry for the delay, I had to find the knife.

It measures 4 1/4" closed.
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doglegg
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by doglegg » Sat May 19, 2018 1:28 am

asigarza wrote:Thanks Bill for your time and the answer.

The knives with a big sheep foot blade were made by an old vanished factory in Buenos Aires, they made with differents names "Navio" "Biselcorte" "El Rodeo" with its own model. They provide Argentine Navy with knives marked "Armada Argentina"
This pics shows the same knife under different names

ARG1C.jpg
ARG1D.jpg
ARG1O.jpg

ARG2C.jpg
ARG2D.jpg
ARG2O.jpg

ARAG3C.jpg
ARG3D.jpg
ARG3O.jpg

ARG4D.jpg


Thanks again for your time!
Best wishes
cottage hill bill wrote:Nice collection. The first one, the ABL is a Belgian copy of the British WWII knife. Right after WWII Belgium used a lot of British equipment until they could make their own which was modeled on the British gear. This knife is a direct copy, very well made.

The next one is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears to be dated 1926? It looks like the Brit WWII but the date is too early. The earliest British army knife of the WWII pattern I've seen is 1939.
The Jos. Allen with the wood scales must be a commercial version.
The next, big sheep's foot with wood scales - does that say Argentina? Nice.
The ATKC is in great condition. Atkinson is a maker I haven't seen before. Are there any other markings on it?
CAM53C looks like a Canadian contract Camillus 6353/1905. On the spike it may be stamped with a C surrounding a broadarrow /|\. That is the Canadian government property mark. Should also have a three or four line stamp on the ricasso including 1915. One of my favorite knives.
The Ibberson is a WWII British army knife. The /|\ above the fiddle in the markings is the British government property mark.
I see you've got an M&D Canada. These were made by Thomas Turner cultler in England under contract for Canada in WWI.
The NAPOL and VISCO I believe are Italian military issue. The giveaway is the fine checkering on the scales.
The NONXLL (none excel) and the Rogers are WWII Seaman's knives. Does the Rogers have a smooth place on one scale? It was a place to stamp a service man's number
XXXX is a typical WWII British army knife. There should be a maker's name and maybe a date on the ricasso on one of the blades.

I can't comment on the commercial knives as they are outside my area of experience. You've got some nice ones though and a great start on a collection.

Best of luck and Good Hunting.
Asigraza, my Spanish isn't the best but does biselcorte translate as rope cutter?

Woodly
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Woodly » Tue May 22, 2018 11:26 pm

Cottage Hill Bill-That #7 Stainless looks very similar to a knife I recently had, it was also stainless, very solid but totally unmarked.
Know anything about it?
I can't post a photo because I gave it to a friend who teaches a Rope and knot class.

cottage hill bill
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by cottage hill bill » Sun May 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Woodly,
Without a picture it's hard to tell. Case made two differently marked knives post war for Canada. the knives were the same only the markings differed but both were marked on the ricasso. The WWI knives made by Turner were marked on the scale M&D Canada over a year.

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Re: Starting to collect

Post by Mossdancer » Wed May 30, 2018 5:03 pm

asigarza:
You may already know. But if not, when you post knife photo's on AAPK they will become a permanent part of the forum. UNLESS you use a external storage site and then when you quit that site if you ever do the photo's are no longer available to the forum.
By the way you have a great looking group of knives. Thanks for your participation, you have signed on with a good bunch of people,
moss
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jerryd6818
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by jerryd6818 » Wed May 30, 2018 6:52 pm

Mossdancer wrote:UNLESS you use a external storage site and then when you quit that site if you ever do the photo's are no longer available to the forum.
moss
WB, I thought all the old hands knew, you can't do that anymore. Bryan disabled that feature a couple of years (or more) ago.
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asigarza
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by asigarza » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:56 pm

After a few months out, I return to show my latest folding, an EKA - Eskiltuna
eka1.jpg[/attachment ][attachment=0]eka2.jpg
hope like it

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eka1.jpg
eka2.jpg

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jerryd6818
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by jerryd6818 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:09 pm

That looks like it would be a very handy tool. I like it.
Forged on the anvil of discipline.
The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

This country has become more about sub-groups than about it's unity as a nation.

"The #72 pattern has got to be pretty close to the perfect knife."
--T.J. Murphy 2012

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FRJ
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Re: Starting to collect

Post by FRJ » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:02 pm

Welcome to the knife forum. You have very interesting knives. ::tu::

I'm sure that is a very solid knife, asigarza. I like the looks of it.
I enjoyed your other photos of your knives too.
This thread is new to me. It is full of interesting knives and information.
Carry on.
Joe

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