Old Keen Kutter Knives

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peanut740
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by peanut740 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:41 am

Dan that is nice! ::tu:: ::tu::
Roger

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danno50
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by danno50 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:04 pm

Thanks for the comments Dimitri, Lloyd, Greg and Roger.
Dan

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by kootenay joe » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:45 pm

Here is one i just found (in the house): E.C.Simmons 3 1/4" Congress Whittler, steel bolsters & nice old jigged bone. Might this have been made by Walden Knife Co. ?
kj
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by danno50 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:31 am

Roland, that looks like a K35277. Sellens says it was in the catalogs from 1905 thru to 1916, so yes, most likely a Walden made knife.
Dan

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by kootenay joe » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 am

Thanks Dan. Wow, 100+ years old, still looks good and works just fine.
kj

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by jxr1197 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:59 pm

A K3287 I just received..
K3287.jpg
- Jason

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by kootenay joe » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:02 am

Super nice Stockman !
This one is not marked "E.C.Simmons". Who is the likely maker ? and what is the date range ?
kj

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by jxr1197 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:10 pm

kootenay joe wrote:Super nice Stockman !
kj
Thanks! Keen Kutters are outside my comfort zone but I'm pretty sure this is a Camillus made Shapleigh. Sellens says it was made between 1939-1942. The pattern number has the 'K' underscored which I read somewhere is another tell that Camillus made it.
kst.jpg
- Jason

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by danno50 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:38 pm

Nice knife, Jason! ::tu:: The "horns" at the top of the wedge tang stamp are also another indication of Camillus manufacture, although I am not sure if this is an absolute. Also, I believe that the K does not need to be underscored to be indicative of being Camillus made (on a knife with a stamped pattern number).
Dan

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by jxr1197 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:26 pm

danno50 wrote:Nice knife, Jason! ::tu:: The "horns" at the top of the wedge tang stamp are also another indication of Camillus manufacture, although I am not sure if this is an absolute. Also, I believe that the K does not need to be underscored to be indicative of being Camillus made (on a knife with a stamped pattern number).
Thanks for that - there isn't a whole lot of Keen Kutter info out there. There's something I'm curious if you might know the answer to. After Simmons parted from Winchester in 1929, who made their knives until 1940 When Shapleigh took over and started with Camillus? I have two Keen Kutters I'll post later or tomorrow when I get home. Same pattern but one is Simmons and one is Shapleigh and they're identical. Without the tang stamp I'd swear they came from the same factory. The Simmons knife also has the horns.
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by danno50 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:02 pm

jxr1197 wrote:
danno50 wrote:Nice knife, Jason! ::tu:: The "horns" at the top of the wedge tang stamp are also another indication of Camillus manufacture, although I am not sure if this is an absolute. Also, I believe that the K does not need to be underscored to be indicative of being Camillus made (on a knife with a stamped pattern number).
Thanks for that - there isn't a whole lot of Keen Kutter info out there. There's something I'm curious if you might know the answer to. After Simmons parted from Winchester in 1929, who made their knives until 1940 When Shapleigh took over and started with Camillus? I have two Keen Kutters I'll post later or tomorrow when I get home. Same pattern but one is Simmons and one is Shapleigh and they're identical. Without the tang stamp I'd swear they came from the same factory. The Simmons knife also has the horns.
Winchester continued to make knives for Simmons after the two companies parted ways. Camillus also made a lot of the Simmons Keen Kutters, starting sometime after the Simmons/Winchester split, right into the Shapleigh era. If you go back to some of the early pages of this thread, particularly page 11 and page 23, there is information posted by another AAPK member, msteele6, who has an extensive Keen Kutter collection.
Dan

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by jxr1197 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:16 am

A pair of K2203s:
1.jpg
2.jpg
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The one on the left is a Simmons, the right is a Shapleigh. After reading through all the info given in this thread I believe both are made by Camillus. Sellens says that from 1921-1939 this knife was 3-1/2" long and grew to 3-7/8" from 1940-1942. Both of these knives are 3-7/8". Maybe this was a misprint in the Sellens book? Maybe the change in size was 1929 when they split and apparently shifted this pattern over to Camillus.
- Jason

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by danno50 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:02 am

jxr1197 wrote:A pair of K2203s:


The one on the left is a Simmons, the right is a Shapleigh. After reading through all the info given in this thread I believe both are made by Camillus. Sellens says that from 1921-1939 this knife was 3-1/2" long and grew to 3-7/8" from 1940-1942. Both of these knives are 3-7/8". Maybe this was a misprint in the Sellens book? Maybe the change in size was 1929 when they split and apparently shifted this pattern over to Camillus.
Nice pair of knives! ::tu:: I would agree, both are Camillus made. Not sure of your reasoning above, Winchester continued to make Keen Kutters for Simmons following 1929 and there is not reason to assume that Camillus took over manufacture of this particular pattern immediately following 1929. Also, Shapleigh did not purchase Simmons until July of 1940. In 1940, both Simmons and Shapleigh put out catalogs.
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this, below is a pic of the 2203 from the 1930 Simmons catalog, it is a different knife from your 2203s? It would appear that more than just the size of the knife changed between 1939 and 1940.
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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by jxr1197 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:22 pm

danno50 wrote:Nice pair of knives! ::tu:: I would agree, both are Camillus made. Not sure of your reasoning above, Winchester continued to make Keen Kutters for Simmons following 1929 and there is not reason to assume that Camillus took over manufacture of this particular pattern immediately following 1929. Also, Shapleigh did not purchase Simmons until July of 1940. In 1940, both Simmons and Shapleigh put out catalogs.
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this, below is a pic of the 2203 from the 1930 Simmons catalog, it is a different knife from your 2203s? It would appear that more than just the size of the knife changed between 1939 and 1940.
I did NOT see that curveball coming! Sellens' book lists the pattern from 1921-1942 and mentions the change in size but only shows the one image (of my knife.) With this additional info 1939-1940 for the Simmons knife is pretty likely. A shorter production window for this version also explains why you don't see many of them - something that bothered me when I thought it was made for 21 years.
sellensp99.jpg
- Jason

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Re: Old Keen Kutter Knives

Post by stockman » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:14 pm

I have a question about old KK knives, before the "Wedge and Bar" tang stamp. They are tang stamped "E.C. Simmons St. Louis. Is all knives with the "E.C. Simmons St. Louis" stamp KK's?

Harold

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