Possible Counterfeit Cattaraugus

[thefoldingblade]

I just got this in the mail (ebay purchase) and have some suspicion about it being a fake. Can someone please take a look and let me know what you think? Any insight is much appreciated.

The listing can still be viewed via the link below:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cattar ... true&rt=nc

Thanks!
Dan

[edge213]

Looks like a fake to me.

[Steve Warden]

Dan, welcome! Glad to have you aboard!!

David, you're killin' me!!
Please don't drop a "Looks fake to me", then walk away!!
Educate us know-nots. Let us in on what you know.

[thefoldingblade]

Thanks for looking and helping me confirm.

[thefoldingblade]

Dan, welcome! Glad to have you aboard!!

David, you're killin' me!!
Please don't drop a "Looks fake to me", then walk away!!
Educate us know-nots. Let us in on what you know.

Thanks Steve! Glad to be onboard. Been meaning to for a while now.

[peanut740]

Modern stamp,nothing old about that knife,a pattern that is commonly faked.Actually I would call it a fantasy knife. Likely make out of old Utica parts.

[edge213]

Dan, welcome! Glad to have you aboard!!

David, you're killin' me!!
Please don't drop a "Looks fake to me", then walk away!!
Educate us know-nots. Let us in on what you know.

My apologies Steve.
The pictures aren't the best , but it just has that "Chinese look" to it.
Let me also say I'm no expert, but I have looked at and own a lot of knives. This one just doesn't look right in the pictures.
If someone showed me and old tractor I wouldn't know what brand it is , but I would know it's not a '67 Mustang.
I don't mean to be a smarta$$. Once again my apologies.

[thefoldingblade]

Modern stamp,nothing old about that knife,a pattern that is commonly faked.Actually I would call it a fantasy knife. Likely make out of old Utica parts.

Thank you for the insight Roger.

[Mumbleypeg]

I’ll second what Roger and David have said. If you’ve looked at a lot of old knives, most just have a “look” about them that is not present in most modern made knives. This is a good example. It just doesn’t look like an old original Cattaraugus knife. It looks new, because it is. It looks cheaply made, because it is.

Sorry Steve but some things are just not easily explained. Experience gives you an intuition that while not always right, usually is.

Ken

[thefoldingblade]

I’ll second what Roger and David have said. If you’ve looked at a lot of old knives, most just have a “look” about them that is not present in most modern made knives. This is a good example. It just doesn’t look like an old original Cattaraugus knife. It looks new, because it is. It looks cheaply made, because it is.

Sorry Steve but some things are just not easily explained. Experience gives you an intuition that while not always right, usually is.

Ken

Thanks Ken, I had a gut feeling on this one and went for it anyway and look where I am now lol. It's great to have people to refer to with this, I'm grateful. I've already submitted a return request so we'll see how that goes.

[1967redrider]

Check out the tang stamp and what's going on with that scale pin close to the bolster? Attaching a couple tang stamp pictures for comparison.

[btrwtr]

A pattern you will see duplicated with numerous tang stamps of old knives. If you see a knife of the same pattern in a different brand look very closely before putting done any serious money. Nearly all are fakes.

Interesting that this seller also has a terrible fake Remington currently for sale as well as a couple more that don't ad up quite right.

[kootenay joe]

A pattern you will see duplicated with numerous tang stamps of old knives. If you see a knife of the same pattern in a different brand look very closely before putting done any serious money. Nearly all are fakes.

Interesting that this seller also has a terrible fake Remington currently for sale as well as a couple more that don't ad up quite right.

Yep. I have one exactly like OP knife except with a different shield and it is marked "Maher/&/Grosh". Mint condition and a well made knife.
I've heard a story of a guy who attended East Coast knife shows and had knives like this in a bucket. He sold them as knives he had made. Mine is as well made as one of today's GEC knives. I quite like this Eureka pattern and this knife in particular. I bought it for little money at ebay auction thinking it to be a recently made knife. I did not and do not, think it to be an original M&G knife.
Will take pics in am.
kj
Edit to add: i see you paid $288. You must return it. I paid about $25 for mine.

[thefoldingblade]

A pattern you will see duplicated with numerous tang stamps of old knives. If you see a knife of the same pattern in a different brand look very closely before putting done any serious money. Nearly all are fakes.

Interesting that this seller also has a terrible fake Remington currently for sale as well as a couple more that don't ad up quite right.

Yep. I have one exactly like OP knife except with a different shield and it is marked "Maher/&/Grosh". Mint condition and a well made knife.
I've heard a story of a guy who attended East Coast knife shows and had knives like this in a bucket. He sold them as knives he had made. Mine is as well made as one of today's GEC knives. I quite like this Eureka pattern and this knife in particular. I bought it for little money at ebay auction thinking it to be a recently made knife. I did not and do not, think it to be an original M&G knife.
Will take pics in am.
kj
Edit to add: i see you paid $288. You must return it. I paid about $25 for mine.

Thanks Joe, interested to see the pics of yours as well. Good news, I've already had my return accepted and just waiting for shipping label to send back. whew

[stockman]

A pattern you will see duplicated with numerous tang stamps of old knives. If you see a knife of the same pattern in a different brand look very closely before putting done any serious money. Nearly all are fakes.

Interesting that this seller also has a terrible fake Remington currently for sale as well as a couple more that don't ad up quite right.

These have been around for several years now. Like has been stated many different stamps. We had a guy in our club buy a roll of these. There was a couple different frames going around.

Harold

[Gunsil]

Yes, these have been around for quite some time now. I think they were made in Germany for the nefarious Mr Parker to foist off on the knife collecting community as real. As stated there are several patterns and a multitude of spurious maker's marks. Poor ebay buyer got soaked for 300 bucks! One thing about all these that is an easy "tell" is that the blades never have any nice top grinds (or "swedges" as some call them) and the pen blade never have a nice top grind on the back side as most early knives do.

[thefoldingblade]

Yes, these have been around for quite some time now. I think they were made in Germany for the nefarious Mr Parker to foist off on the knife collecting community as real. As stated there are several patterns and a multitude of spurious maker's marks. Poor ebay buyer got soaked for 300 bucks! One thing about all these that is an easy "tell" is that the blades never have any nice top grinds (or "swedges" as some call them) and the pen blade never have a nice top grind on the back side as most early knives do.

Thanks, and it was me that got soaked lol I'm in the return process right now. Thought it was too good to be true, should have listened to my gut! Lesson learned.

[Steve Warden]

Dan, welcome! Glad to have you aboard!!

David, you're killin' me!!
Please don't drop a "Looks fake to me", then walk away!!
Educate us know-nots. Let us in on what you know.

My apologies Steve.
The pictures aren't the best , but it just has that "Chinese look" to it.
Let me also say I'm no expert, but I have looked at and own a lot of knives. This one just doesn't look right in the pictures.
If someone showed me and old tractor I wouldn't know what brand it is , but I would know it's not a '67 Mustang.
I don't mean to be a smarta$$. Once again my apologies.

Apologies accepted, my friend.

I haven't been in hobby long enough, nor do I have many places around here where I can go and hold knives in hand to give 'em a good long eyeball study. I gotta learn from what I see here and what people point out as things to look for.

[Froe]

A quick check is to see if the shield is resting in top of the handles instead of inlaid into the bone. If the shield isn't sunk into the bone it's gonna be a stinker.
Many years a ago (25? 30?) I bought one of these at a show thinking it might be fun just to carry a dressy knife I could still beat around. The guy said he put them together from parts along with some other more honest knives that he had rehandled. He did nice work. Kinda pretty, but I never carried it and I still have it. I also have a worm grove rehandled Hibbard Spenser and Bartlett trapper I got from him.
Keith

[thefoldingblade]

A quick check is to see if the shield is resting in top of the handles instead of inlaid into the bone. If the shield isn't sunk into the bone it's gonna be a stinker.
Many years a ago (25? 30?) I bought one of these at a show thinking it might be fun just to carry a dressy knife I could still beat around. The guy said he put them together from parts along with some other more honest knives that he had rehandled. He did nice work. Kinda pretty, but I never carried it and I still have it. I also have a worm grove rehandled Hibbard Spenser and Bartlett trapper I got from him.
Keith

The shield was one of the first things I noticed when I got it. It does sit on top of the bone, not inlaid. Despite some fit issues, it does have nice walk and talk and is fairly well built. Just doesn't feel like an old knife (since it's not). Funny because I had a similar thought to just keep it and make it a fancy user that I could beat up but for $300 that's a no go lol.

[kootenay joe]

Here is my lovely Maher & Grosh Eureka Jack.
Note the wrap around spring and in same view, the proud shield.
This fake reminds me of the Queen Black Box Winchesters which also lack spine swages on the blades.
kj

[cbfd]

Thanks Joe for the extra pics,that has got to help identify this type of fake! Bill

[kootenay joe]

Thanks Joe for the extra pics,that has got to help identify this type of fake! Bill

Thanks Bill.
Here is a "Miller Bros." Swell Center Jack. Note wrap around spring here as well.
kj

[kootenay joe]

And one more, this one with stag handles, a Serpentine Jack marked "Henkle & Joyce", again with wrap around spring.
This one was 'minty' when i bought it but i have used it to peel & slice potatoes.
These are good very usable knives but no value otherwise. My 3 came from ebay for about $25-$35 each.
I think they may have been assembled using Queen parts and blades because of resemblance to the Queen Winchester knives.
kj

[Gunsil]

And all those examples have no swedges or top grinds. Don't even have to have in hand to inspect shield, it says modern knife from a mile away just by looking at the blades. KJ, I know a guy with the same as your bad Maher but marked New York Knife. These are the ones Parker had made in Germany, supposedly when they came through customs they had "Germany" inked on the back of a blade which Parker simply wiped off. They are actually pretty well made knives. Another "tell" from a mile away is that the detail on the fancy bolsters is blurry compared to the bolsters they imitate. Oh, they were available in some Parker catalogs back in the day.