SCHRADES MY TRUE LOVE

[W5RWU]

upnorth Keep the pics coming
w5wru

[Another Knife Collector]

Nice ones upnorth, the bone on the second from left is my favorite.

[ea42]

Charlie....haven't responded...'cause I'm doing the breast stroke...in a pool of drool! Keep 'em coming buddy!!

Eric

[upnorth]

That is such a grim image, Eric !
I am however glad that A) you can swim, and B) you like the knives!!

[Sauconian]

That is such a grim image, Eric !
I am however glad that A) you can swim, and B) you like the knives!!

Yeah, I'll have that image on my mind the next time we go to a show together.

I might as well get another basset hound.

Keep the knives coming Charlie, we're watching. I'm just running out of superlatives.

Fran

[Rusty1]

Is Eric trying to beat Phelps gold medal record

I'll bring a swim cap next time we go to a show

Russell

[lt632ret]

Hello to all just thought I would add my 2 cents. The stag material in question, is a form of cell or early acetate which was early form of plastic it was all transitional early attempts for an atrificial material other than cell. fibestos was just what it says fiber and asbestos combined to again make an early composition material. Here are some pics of some of the various models you spoke of of and a farmers jack in fibestos. Just thought I would post, to show that I am still here, even if a bit over whelmed in projects . I suppose none of which would matter if I just did not do them my problem is I promise to write or whatever and just run out of time. I hope these pics will compensate a bit for my lack of participation . Keep up the good work especially you Charlie. Eric please give me a call when you can . ( as usual I lost your number) I hope to see you at the next meeting of the museum foundation. LT PS I guess everyone saw the SC razor go for almost 300 dollars this week so I also added a pic of one of mine it is the huron model which is my favorite.Notice the bird cattail reeds ect I have always believed that this model mas picked due to these birds still being seen often standing on one leg in the Wallkill river in Walden where Schrade was located then. This razor was also one of the few models made in Germany for Schrade and sold here under the Schrade Cut Co tang. This is not to be confused with the few real early 1903 Schrades marked germany it was later but again rare since razors were one if not the only exception for this policy most were not import contracts.

[Sauconian]

Nice group of cutlery LT, thanks.

Some of the nicest photos I've ever seen you post too. New camera ?

Fran

[upnorth]

Great pictures LT!! Indeed your pics have jumped a quantum leap!! Nice examples.
1)Does that fibestos always have a dull finish??
That 7973 is a treasure to see! First one I've laid eyes on in the flesh. It looks like it was added to the catalog in about 1930.
Another question, 2)what does the R prefix stand for??

[lt632ret]

Fibestos was also jigged, some was polished the Schrade Walden 804 which was called carpenters knife was a mechanics knife under cut co ( it had another digit in the number ) and some of them were made in a jigged fibestos. also jigged bone, under Schrade Walden it was jigged delrin and bone. As far as the pics I do have another camera it goes to 10 X, Kodak . Since time is limited I took this group from some that I am doing for another long over due project. I used these because after doing them I was informed that they were not usable for publication ( they need more X or pixels or some damn thing ) and I had to redo them but I saved the little card they were on. Things have changed since I would just send regular photos. They seem fine to just post and since the others are a bit different I felt it did not interfere with the project to post these. I have several offers but frankly I do not know if or when I will be able to finish what I am doing it is really an overwhelming task along with everything else. Perhapes I will get back to it this winter when snowed in I did these last winter. Who knows ? I will say that it is much more of a pain doing these than with the old mavica. I am setting up a small area just to take pics so that should help ( having a permanent studio). It is just to much for one person to do properly I still have a huge amount of paper and records that I will probably never get into let alone sorted. In between, this during this summer I had a new roof ( thankyou Mr tornado ) a new kitchen with appliances as well as a new furnace, water heater, and natural gas logs installed that included the piping to get to the house from the street.put in. In between there have been presentations to promote the museum and more that I will not bore you with. Needless to say there is still more to do. I also have been trying to keep up with correspondence as well as doing a few articles. I am like a man trying to juggle while on a trapeze as he whistles dixie with a broom up his butt. It has the same efficency as a monkey trying to mate with a football while in a washing machine that some how is still working as it is dropped from an airplane. You can imagine how this affects the equilibreum of a person like myself who likes everything sorted neat and in sequence so once again please do not think to badly of me for not posting more. You guys are doing well and I am sure my absence is much more on my mind than yours, still I do not like to let anyone down by not pulling my weight. Luckily a lot of the threads really are not my forte which has helped. LT PS Sorry I just saw your question about the R prefix. Frankly I do not know however there are some hints this designation is really only used on these two large moose pattern knives they have the rounded handles and unthreaded bolsters and flat sided threaded same size moose patterns are not so designated. The R is usually asociated with the ringturn pattern ( however obviously not in this pattern ) . There is also a farmers jack in cell that carries an R designation RS7304W. However that is an RS designation So again I do not know However large more rare knives which carry a strange prefix are not unheard of like the Large jack L28633/4. I will try to remember to ask Dave Swinden when I see him it is a great question however one that has come up before so I guess we should find out. If any one knows please so advise.

[W5RWU]

LT thanks for the lesson & the pics ! Lt watch out for those broom sticks, that has to hurt!!
Randy

[lt632ret]

Yes but as I have been told in a private email it would be interesting to see me in either scenario. This is sure not a place to look for sympathy . Yes I know I should look in the dictionary. OOOH you are a good bunch as Jackie Gleason would have said. Er does anyone remember Jackie Gleason???? LT

[orvet]

ROFLAMO

[jonet143]

one of these days allice, one of these days, boom, straight to the moon!

see LT, you ain't the only pruner here.

[upnorth]

Yes but as I have been told in a private email it would be interesting to see me in either scenario. This is sure not a place to look for sympathy . Yes I know I should look in the dictionary. OOOH you are a good bunch as Jackie Gleason would have said. Er does anyone remember Jackie Gleason???? LT

Geddahtaheah Norton!!

[LRV]

And away we go!

[upnorth]

Speaking of being old, water and age have similarities. Water can be in a liquid, solid or gaseous state. Old age is the gaseous state. ! !

[MPS]

Hello over there,

A discussion that has been going on for over two years is impressive. I live in Germany, just joined this forum recently and discovered this topic just now, so please excuse me for commenting on something that was posted at the very start. There, in the very first first photograph in the very first posting on November 20, 2006, there is a fixed-blade knife on the lower left with an unusually curved blade, reminds me of a slipper from the Arabian Nights. It appears to be the only fixed-blade in the box. A friend of mine recently bought one second-hand while on vacation in the U.S. and we are all curious as to what this was originally intended for. Is it a hunting knife?

Another question: I often read of "Delrin" handles. Is that a form of plastic? I own a Schrade 80T pocket knife with those handles and can't figure out what kind of material that is. It says "Walden, New York" on the large blade, and since model 80T was first introduced in 1961 (says so on the list elsewhere in this forum), the blade must have been from older stocks prior to the move to Ellenville in 1957. And where is Ellenville?

Thanks for your help.
Sam

[orvet]

Hello Sam,
Welcome to AAPK.

The knife you refer to is indeed a hunting knife. It is known by it’s name of Sharpfinger or the model number; 152OT.
The sweeping curve in the blade makes it a good design for a skinning knife.

Delrin is indeed a brand name for a plastic from DuPont.
Here is some info from DuPont’s web site:

"Delrin® acetal resin emerged from DuPont's efforts to capitalize on the success of nylon and the growing post World War II market for plastics and other synthetic materials. Efforts to develop a tough and heat resistant metal substitute began in the early 1950s, and by 1952 chemists in the Polychemicals Department had synthesized an inflexible polymer from formaldehyde that assistant research director Frank C. McGrew called "synthetic stone" and DuPont named Delrin®.
After four years of development DuPont patented Delrin® in 1956 and began construction of a 20-million pound annual-capacity production plant at Parkersburg, West Virginia, completed in 1960. As manufacture commenced, total research and development costs for the project topped $50 million dollars. DuPont fully expected to recover these costs by marketing Delrin® as a general substitute for nonferrous metals, but a patent dispute and stiff competition held profitability down. As a result, DuPont focused subsequent research efforts on more sophisticated and specialized engineering polymers.
Despite its troubled beginnings, Delrin® thrived in the long run and has been steadily improved over the years. Today, Delrin® is a mainstay of DuPont's engineering polymers line and is widely acclaimed as a lightweight but durable low wear, low friction plastic for electronic office equipment, advanced conveyor technology, and automotive applications."
The simulated stag on the Uncle Henry knives are also made from Delrin, put the process of getting it to look like stag was (as I recall) developed at Schrade and called “Staglon”.

Essentially the Delrin on the Old Timer knives are made to look like saw cut bone on many of the old knives. The Delrin on the Uncle Henry knives are made to look like Stag handles. They call it "Staglon".I think “Staglon” was one of the first successful attempt to effectively replicate the look of stag on a large scale. I think the process for making Delrin look like stag was developed by Schrade (but I am not positive on this point).


Ellenville, NY is a town very close to Walden, NY. They are just a few miles apart in upstate New York, not far from the Hudson River I am told, though I have never been there.


I hope this has answered your questions. Let us know if you have more questions.

Dale

[lt632ret]

In answer to your first question the knife in question is a 152 OT also known as the Sharpfinger. It was designed as a general purpose hunting knife. It is the smaller brother of the larger earlier 15 OT . I have included some ads and specs ( specs taken from the Bob Clemente book a catalogue history of Schrade knives Old Timer and Uncle Henry ). on both knives as well as some pics to give an idea of size. It is a bit blurry but one ad says everything from squirrels to elephants. Some idiot quite a few years ago did an article on bikers and said that this knife was there favorite form of weapon. Most of the bikers I have known usually do not bring a knife to a gun fight ( the actual weapon of choice ) in any event it gave the knife a bad rep for a while. Its lines give it a tough deameaner however in truth the design is great for skinning the name sharp finger is perfect because it is actually like an extension of the forefinger it is kind of like drawing a line with your finger. The 15 OT is also excellent for this purpose but the smaller knife is great for close and fine work. I happened to know the then vice president of Schrade who told me the story of how this knife came to be. Henry Baer had suggested the design. The people in the room ( meeting) discussed its merits my friend preferred the 041 OT maverick ( which this knife eventually replaced in the line. ) However he was out voted he then remarked to Mr Baer that if this knife sold well he would eat his hat. The knife was a great success he said Mr Baer later told him that he should feel free to use any condiments he wish when he had his hat for lunch.

Regarding your 8-OT The Schrade Walden tang was used from 1946 until 1972. The move from Walden was in 1956 and the OT ( Old Timer ) line of knives was introduced in 1959. There were some proto types made in the mid 50tys ( when they were figuring out how the line would look ) however yours is not one of them. The UH line of knives was started in 1969 ( approx) . Both the UH and OT lines are handled in delrin. Which is a form of plastic which lends itself nicely to knife handles. The OT line was in what is called sawcut which simulates bone or wood which has been cut on a wheel saw. Actually it is gray and then dyed black ( or sometimes other colors. ) The UH line used staglon ( imitation stag colored and shaped delrin. The OT line was originally in carbon steel and the UH line in Schrade + ( stainless steel ) at the end of production that was not always the case but it was the original concept. Schrade wanted to get away from natural materials for handles ( plastic was the wave of the then future and what was sought ). Schrade had been using plastic since the fiftys.( actually 40tys) However the sawcut and staglon solid handles are what they settled on after various other attempts. At the end the whole idea had gone full circle and right now natural materials bone, stag ect are in vogue. I could explain why these things happened and the reasons for them but I believe this should answer some of the concerns you expressed. I hope this helps if something else is needed please advise. PS The pics are not great as usual I am trying to do 6 things at once. LT

[MPS]

Wow, you guys are great! The pics are great and the information is overwhelming. Thank you.

Now let me give you an idea of what usually happens over here in Germany when you ask a question like I just did. The first, second and third responses are: We have a search machine here, why don't you use it? Something like: There are entire libraries out there, so why are you bothering us with such primitive questions? Things like that happen here all the time. How nice it is to experience the opposite.

Best regards,
Sam

[jonet143]

hey sam, welcome to the friendliest site on the web, where no question is ridiculed and we answer to the best of our abilities. we are fortunate to have such authorities such as LT and many others to help fill in the blanks. tell your friends and fellow collectors.

[MPS]

Hi again, and nice to know that questions are not ridiculed. Honest, there's a knife forum here in Germany where I was "warned" simply for responding to a discussion that was two years old. I hadn't noticed the date, just the content. When I complained in a very civilized tone that warning me was overdoing it a little, they slapped five points on me (I don't know how many negatives you are allowed before they toss you out). Rather spend my time at this site.

This is getting off the subject, but should anyone out there have questions about German knives, I may be able to help. I'm by no means an expert, and don't have much time to spend on the internet, but a word here and thre I could translate, and I could take a chance at being ridiculed at the local forum by passing one of your questions along to the bad guys.

Sam

[lt632ret]

It sounds like these people might be from another section of town. Perhapes the area where I acquired this hat ( see attached ) many years ago. They were not very friendly and once they found you in there neighborhood never wanted to let you go back home. I wish to thankyou for your offer it does expand our field of expertise. I am always interested in any unusual or old mechanisms ect. I have a couple of people who sometimes contact me if they run accross anything unusual one is in Austria. Regarding forums in general it seems that for many reasons, it is sometimes best to go elsewhere. AAPK has shown itself to me to be a low key place of nice people that is I feel is in part due to the wonderful management of the site which unlike most lets us sort out our own discussions and the knowledgable honest participants who are here not for personal recognition but rather to share information. We are not as large a group as some forums. People come and go many look in and do not participate. However what we lack in size we make up in integrity and quality. Unfortunately in my case time has become a mitigating factor and I do not contribute as much as I would like to. I found the penality points amusing seems these people are quite serious and have little time for that or those who they consider frivolous or redundant to them. Personally my only concerns are for the honesty and integrity of the postings. Giving credit to where information is gleaned from and the ability to accept information and learn from all sources. This sometimes requires a person to say I was wrong and to be big enough to admit it. We really have no experts here just informed people who like to communicate with each other.
I hope you will continue to participate and enjoy the site and people as much as I do. LT PS someone please send me Bryans email as usual ( for those who know me I have lost it and am not adroit enough to find it. ) or perhapes someone can tell him to email me.

[MPS]

Boy, they'd really get on our case here in Germany for not staying on the subject of Schrade, but no one is watching, so I can say that this is in all likelihood a winter-issue military cap from East Germany. The emblem is absolutely communist East Germany, and I sometimes see hats like this at flea markets in Berlin. If the people back when you bought this were a little wary and unfriendly, it might have been due to the close proximity of communism. Shortly after the wall opened, everyone was on edge, and in the east they had the impression that westerners were out to buy up everything in the east at bargain prices. They weren't wrong because we're still at it. Prices are rising in a hurry, though, things from the "good old days" under communism are becoming rarer and more expensive. Even four years ago, when my daughter moved to Berlin, life in the eastern parts of the city was really cheap. That is no longer the case.

Nice hat, but better not wear it over here.

Sam