Pommel attachment question.

[Colonel26]

I’ve been cleaning up this old Queen City bird and trout knife, thinking about doing my first rehandle on it. The pommel seems loose, it will wiggle some and move back and forth just a tad. Is this normal on these? Do the handles fitting properly “tighten” it up or is there something I can do?

I can’t see any pins holding it on, just a plug of a different metal on the back end? Any advise or tips would be appreciated before I tear into this. Thanks guys.

[just bob]

I think what is in the end of your knife is a solder plug. You should be able to gouge that out. Many times there is a nut in there you can loosen to get the pommel off. Kaleb has probably taken a thousand of these off and may respond if he sees this.

[Gunsil]

Hi Col, the pommel on your knife is affixed with poured lead or solder instead of a removable pommel nut. Case, KA-BAR, and Kinfolks also used this method for a while. The pommel end of the tang has a "V" cut into it to hold the lead securely. The scales do not contribute to the tightness of the pommel, it must be loose due to being dropped or something. I have never attempted to remove the lead plug, but I am sure it might be able to be done. The problem will be heating the pommel enough for the lead to run out without melting the aluminum. This sort of brings one to the point of it it worth the trouble? Fairly deep pitting on the blade, broken bone that is no longer available, and the loose pommel means a lot of work and some money for scales to put into a knife which can be found in nice original condition for less than 70 bucks often. When done with the "restoration" it will not be worth even that since it won't be original and the blade will be a lot thinner if all those pits are sanded out. Good luck with it should you continue "restoration"!!

[Gunsil]

I think what is in the end of your knife is a solder plug. You should be able to gouge that out. Many times there is a nut in there you can loosen to get the pommel off. Kaleb has probably taken a thousand of these off and may respond if he sees this.

I have never seen or heard of a nut under the lead, and it will not be easy to gouge it out without damaging the aluminum which is also a fairly soft metal. I know for sure that the big three, KA-BAR, Case, and Kinfolks did not have a nut under the lead. As stated above, the end of the tang has a "V" or sometimes and open circle in it to hold the lead securely. I have seen Case fixed blades where the bakelite pommel has cracked and been lost and examined the lead plug and end of the tang. Also examined a KA-BAR which had no handle or pommel and saw the "V" cut in the tang. Again, how much work does one want to do to a knife no matter how inexpensive the original cost to end up with a knife that won't be original or have much market value??

[Colonel26]

Thank you both for the replies. I was assuming that this was a poured lead situation. Oh well, we’ll see what I can come up with.

As to the “pitting” I have the blade mostly clean now and it feels smooth to me. It was surprisingly good underneath the grime. It’ll be a good one to practice and learn with.

[just bob]

I had one of these and mounted it in a vice upside down and drilled holes down into the plug and then took an ice pick type tool and gouged the material out and made a clean cavity. Maybe there wasn't a nut under there? I don't remember?

[just bob]

This old post does say there is a nut under there - sometimes.




viewtopic.php?f=37&t=36549&p=345022&hil ... el#p345022

[Colonel26]

Thanks Bob. Good information.

[muskrat man]

I think what is in the end of your knife is a solder plug. You should be able to gouge that out. Many times there is a nut in there you can loosen to get the pommel off. Kaleb has probably taken a thousand of these off and may respond if he sees this.

A good tight fitting set of handles will wedge it in place and would be the easiest option. The ones I have taken apart have been German and they were just poured full of solder, heat will melt the solder and allow the pommel to pull off. I've never encountered a nut under the solder but wouldn't doubt it has been done.

[Colonel26]

I think what is in the end of your knife is a solder plug. You should be able to gouge that out. Many times there is a nut in there you can loosen to get the pommel off. Kaleb has probably taken a thousand of these off and may respond if he sees this.

A good tight fitting set of handles will wedge it in place and would be the easiest option. The ones I have taken apart have been German and they were just poured full of solder, heat will melt the solder and allow the pommel to pull off. I've never encountered a nut under the solder but wouldn't doubt it has been done.

Thanks Caleb. It had very little movement and I was hoping tight fitting scales might take up the slack.

I’ve pecked around on the “plug” and I really cant tell what it is.

[Gunsil]

Thank you both for the replies. I was assuming that this was a poured lead situation. Oh well, we’ll see what I can come up with.

As to the “pitting” I have the blade mostly clean now and it feels smooth to me. It was surprisingly good underneath the grime. It’ll be a good one to practice and learn with.

Enjoy your project!! Could look nice if blade cleaned up well. Plug is definitely lead or lead alloy like lead solder.

[Colonel26]

Thank you sir. This of course won’t be for any monetary gain. And I wouldn’t sell it any being as dad gave it to me. I just want to see what I can do! I appreciate the help.

[zzyzzogeton]

The melting point of lead is 621ºF and for aluminum, it is 1220ºF . So a pure lead plug will melt out before an aluminum pommel begins to have issues.

The question is "Is the plug pure lead?". The melting point of an alloy of lead could be higher than that of pure lead, but in MOST cases will still be below that of aluminum.

Truth in advertising - I am NOT a metalurgist. I just Google stuff.

[Colonel26]

The melting point of lead is 621ºF and for aluminum, it is 1220ºF . So a pure lead plug will melt out before an aluminum pommel begins to have issues.

The question is "Is the plug pure lead?". The melting point of an alloy of lead could be higher than that of pure lead, but in MOST cases will still be below that of aluminum.

Truth in advertising - I am NOT a metalurgist. I just Google stuff.

Thank you sir. I may take her out to the shop tonight and see what we can do with it.

[zzyzzogeton]

I accept no responsibility for the results. I'm just the instigator.

[btrwtr]

I have some experience with this and some well directed heat from a propane torch should do the trick. If you save the pommel you should be able to reuse it by melting the lead above and allowing it to drip into and fill the aluminum cavity.