Need help identifying this old whittler

[Gone2Three]

Howdy y'all,
I'd posted this old knife in the mail thread but thought I'd ask for help with identifying the maker as the tang stamps are about gone. I've been able to get a picture of what's left on one blade. Hoping that our friends here can help...
Thanks, Randy

[knifeaholic]

Looks like a New York Knife Co. knife to me.

[orvet]

Looks like a New York Knife Co. knife to me.

I was thinking the same thing Steve, but you probably know better than I.

[1967redrider]

That's not the bottom of a Keen Kutter stamp, is it?

[doglegg]

redrider you have good eyes.

[Gone2Three]

Appreciate your responses, I'd thought maybe Keen kutter but wasn't quite sure. Anyone here a guess on the age?
Either way I'm very happy to add it to the collection

[kootenay joe]

It is not a regular Whittler as it is a 3 spring knife, Eureka pattern ? This might help with ID as it is not an often seen pattern.
I too thought the 'V' looks like bottom of Keen Kutter logo.
kj

[Gone2Three]

It is not a regular Whittler as it is a 3 spring knife, Eureka pattern ? This might help with ID as it is not an often seen pattern.
I too thought the 'V' looks like bottom of Keen Kutter logo.
kj

Interesting so pardon my newness here but what is different with a 3 spring compared to others?
And thanks for the input

[herbva]

That's not the bottom of a Keen Kutter stamp, is it?

Nice call John! I think you nailed it. They are quite worn, but I think the scales are old pick bone. Nice oldie!

[Mumbleypeg]

Interesting so pardon my newness here but what is different with a 3 spring compared to others?

A “whittler” pattern is generally described as having a master blade on one end which when closed falls between two secondary blades hinged on the opposite end from the master. (There are other patterns called whittlers by their makers but for purposes of answering your question let’s assume the definition I just used). Over the years there have been several different constructions used to make them.

Probably the most common is one having two back springs separated on one end by a tapered spacer (wedge). The two springs come together on one end, on which the master blade rides. On the other end where the springs are separated by the spacer, each of the secondary blades rides on its own single spring.

Tapered spacer

280CC22D-E6F4-49AA-82D9-8667201B2B4A.jpeg (26.47 KiB) Viewed 2037 times

Another version also uses two back springs, without a tapered spacer between them. Instead the two secondary blades are separated by what’s called a “catch bit” spacer, which sits between the blades but on top of the two back springs, and only on the end where the secondary blades sit. Again the master blade rides on two springs.

Catch bit construction

231800F8-0FCB-41A6-A184-213136FB8410.jpeg (47.65 KiB) Viewed 2035 times

A third version uses three back springs, like the OP knife. Those are simpler to make but result in a generally “thicker” knife. Each blade rides on its own spring.

The other version uses a single back spring which has been split into two springs on one end. These are rare, and older than other types described above. Most believe the maker started with two separate springs which were then forged together on one end. In this case, again each secondary blade rides on one of them”split” back springs, while the master blade rides on the consolidated single-piece end of the spring.

Single spring, split

914C5B12-F95D-4CE7-B183-CE6E48C23165.jpeg (37.18 KiB) Viewed 2037 times

Single spring, split

58DC64A3-50EA-4102-8B59-5F50D4206B67.jpeg (40.25 KiB) Viewed 2037 times

Ken

[Gone2Three]

Interesting so pardon my newness here but what is different with a 3 spring compared to others?

A “whittler” pattern is generally described as having a master blade on one end which when closed falls between two secondary blades hinged on the opposite end from the master. (There are other patterns called whittlers by their makers but for purposes of answering your question let’s assume the definition I just used). Over the years there have been several different constructions used to make them.

Probably the most common is one having two back springs separated on one end by a tapered spacer (wedge). The two springs come together on one end, on which the master blade rides. On the other end where the springs are separated by the spacer, each of the secondary blades rides on its own single spring.

280CC22D-E6F4-49AA-82D9-8667201B2B4A.jpeg
Another version also uses two back springs, without a tapered spacer between them. Instead the two secondary blades are separated by what’s called a “catch bit” spacer, which sits between the blades but on top of the two back springs, and only on the end where the secondary blades sit. Again the master blade rides on two springs.

231800F8-0FCB-41A6-A184-213136FB8410.jpeg

A third version uses three back springs, like the OP knife. Those are simpler to make but result in a generally “thicker” knife. Each blade rides on its own spring.

The other version uses a single back spring which has been split into two springs on one end. These are rare, and older than other types described above. Most believe the maker started with two separate springs which newer then forged together on one end. In this case, again each secondary blade rides on one of them”split” back springs, while the master blade rides on the consolidated single-piece end of the spring.
914C5B12-F95D-4CE7-B183-CE6E48C23165.jpeg
58DC64A3-50EA-4102-8B59-5F50D4206B67.jpeg


Ken

Thank you Ken! That's a lot of information to digest but I think I've got it...
Appreciate your response and valuable information in my learning here

[kootenay joe]

Ken has covered all "Whittler" bases but a simple definition is : a 3 blade, 2 spring knife in which the master blade bears on both springs.
Your knife has 3 springs so it is not a 'true' whittler.
Some knife collectors like to use the various knife words exactly as defined where as others use a looser interpretation: e.g. main blade on your knife lies between the other 2 blades, "hey it's a whittler" where as purist: "not a whittler, has 3 springs and master does not bear on 2 springs".
Hope this is clear
kj

[Gone2Three]

Ken has covered all "Whittler" bases but a simple definition is : a 3 blade, 2 spring knife in which the master blade bears on both springs.
Your knife has 3 springs so it is not a 'true' whittler.
Some knife collectors like to use the various knife words exactly as defined where as others use a looser interpretation: e.g. main blade on your knife lies between the other 2 blades, "hey it's a whittler" where as purist: "not a whittler, has 3 springs and master does not bear on 2 springs".
Hope this is clear
kj

I think so Kj, so if not a true whittler because of the 3 spring... what do I have here? I think you mentioned in your earlier post a Eureka pattern?
Sorry for all the questions, just want to be able to answer if someone asks

[peanut740]

It is a whittler,a 3 backspring whittler.It is also at least 100 years old.The old pick bone tells us that.Also a knife of that age should be stamped on all 3 blades.

[peanut740]

It could be called several different things.It is still a whittler.

[peanut740]

This is a modern version of your knife.

[Mumbleypeg]

It is a whittler,a 3 backsliding whittler.It is also at least 100 years old.The old pick bone tells us that.Also a knife of that age should be stamped on all 3 blades.

I think you meant 3 back spring whittler. Spellchecker does stuff like that to me too! Or maybe “3 backsliding” is just a new term to me.

Ken

[peanut740]

Thanks Ken,damn spell check.I will correct it.

[kootenay joe]

The "modern" knife shown above is what GEC called "Stockyard Whittler" but others have referred to it as a "Eureka" pattern because it has a swell at center back. A true Eureka has a front bolster that is more pointed in shape than the rear caps and size is different. In OP knife the size of bolster differs from size of caps but shape is similar.
Going by Levine's definition it is not a whittler. Whether you call it a "whittler" or "eureka" or whatever you have to make exceptions to the standard definition. The closest is shown in LG4 pg. 287 which is a L.F.C. "Eureka Cattle" knife. Have a look. It is very similar and might have been made by same manufacturer as OP knife. It is a 3 spring knife with master lying between the secondaries, with a swell at center, spring side and unequal size of bolsters/caps. Why Levine decided to put this with Cattle knives he does not explain. I think it is an odd pattern that he had to put somewhere.
kj

[Gone2Three]

This is a modern version of your knife.

... that's a beautiful Maher and Grosh you've got there
Thanks for the additional info!

[Gone2Three]

The "modern" knife shown above is what GEC called "Stockyard Whittler" but others have referred to it as a "Eureka" pattern because it has a swell at center back. A true Eureka has a front bolster that is more pointed in shape than the rear caps and size is different. In OP knife the size of bolster differs from size of caps but shape is similar.
Going by Levine's definition it is not a whittler. Whether you call it a "whittler" or "eureka" or whatever you have to make exceptions to the standard definition. The closest is shown in LG4 pg. 287 which is a L.F.C. "Eureka Cattle" knife. Have a look. It is very similar and might have been made by same manufacturer as OP knife. It is a 3 spring knife with master lying between the secondaries, with a swell at center, spring side and unequal size of bolsters/caps. Why Levine decided to put this with Cattle knives he does not explain. I think it is an odd pattern that he had to put somewhere.
kj

Well leave it to me to pick up an odd pattern knife, lol
There's something about these really old knives that fascinate me. Maybe it's the idea of preserving a little bit of history.
I probably should pick up a copy of Levine's guide to help in my research. I'm sure glad to have such knowledge members here to help out.
All the blades have worn the stamp off but I was able to find something else I missed before.
What's intriguing to me is how a knife is dated based on the bone? Is there something about it that determines how old?
Here's the additional picture of the tang mark or what's left of it. This is on the larger blade

Thanks again kj

[rea1eye]

Looks like the group has this knife identified. Very knowledgeable group.

What does “pick” mean in pick bone? I know I have seen this bone before.........

Bob

[Gone2Three]

Looks like the group has this knife identified. Very knowledgeable group.

What does “pick” mean in pick bone? I know I have seen this bone before.........

Bob

I agree Bob, and very grateful for the help

[danno50]

It could possibly be a Keen Kutter K38 3/4, shown in the 1917 catalog pages below. Sellens says it was in the catalogs between 1905 and 1934, but says it had a crest shield after 1924. Neither Sellens or the catalog makes any mention of number of springs? As Roger stated, all three blades would have been stamped. Are there any remnants of stamps on the two smaller blades? As Roger also pointed out, the old pick bone identifies it as an early knife, so IF it is a Keen Kutter it would very likely have been made in the Walden factory.

[Mumbleypeg]

Looks like the group has this knife identified. Very knowledgeable group.

What does “pick” mean in pick bone? I know I have seen this bone before.........

Bob

“Pick bone” describes a style of jigging for bone handles. “Rogers bone”, “peachseed bone”, are examples describing other types of jigging. There are others. You just have to look at a lot of old knives and learn the various descriptions.

Ken