Tightening Loose Pivot Pin on Camillus 64

[Jerlin]

A few months ago I did a restoration on my 64. I replaced the spey blade and the awl and also replaced the plastic scales with bone. This was one of my first attempts to do this. I have been using the knife as an EDC. Now I have noticed the pivot pin for the main blade and spey blade is loose, which is allowing sideways movement of the two blades. I do not remember what I used for the pivot pin as I am a novice at this and do not have a stock of pin material. I could use some suggestions on how to correct the problem. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

Jerry Johnson

[ea42]

Jerry just tap the pin lightly with a hammer a little at a time until the blades tighten up. It might only take a couple of taps on each side. Keep checking the blades every couple of taps to make sure you don't over tighten it. Did you countersink the bolster hole before you hammered the new pin in?

Eric

[herbva]

Jerry just tap the pin lightly with a hammer a little at a time until the blades tighten up. It might only take a couple of taps on each side. Keep checking the blades every couple of taps to make sure you don't over tighten it. Did you countersink the bolster hole before you hammered the new pin in?

Eric

I would just add to that if you have some very thin feeler gauges, insert one on each side between the blade tang and the liner before you do your "tapping". ( I use a .007 (0.18mm) and a .008 (0.20mm) and in knife parlance, these are called "slackeners".) This will make it less likely for you to over tighten the blades. After you are done tapping, remove the slackeners and check for blade wobble. If you still have any wobble just use a couple of light taps on each side until there is no wobble. Be very careful, it is very easy to overtighten when doing this step. If you haven't tapered the bolster holes and they weren't already tapered, you may need to repin the knife completely. Here is the link to an excellent Muskrat Man video that shows, in the second half, how to use slackeners and how to peen properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X44CxU2wtOk

[OLDE CUTLER]

You dont want to do any tapping on the pivot pins without having a slacker installed. Use something like a .010"-.015" slacker. If you hammer the pin without a slacker, you will almost certainly get it too tight. The pin holes in the bolsters also need to be tapered as mentioned above.

[Jerlin]

Eric, Herb and Olde Cutler, thank you for your very helpful input to my question. I know I used a "slackener" when I originally installed the pivot pin for these two blades. However, I did not countersink or taper the bolster holes. I guess I assumed they were already countersunk/tapered from the Camillus factory. I did watch Muskrat Man's video as you suggested Herb. It is a very good video. However, I don't believe I saw him countersink or taper the bolster holes after he drilled the new bolster holes. Since the pivot pin in my knife has up and down movement in the bolster hole, I think it would be best if I removed the pivot pin and replaced it with a new pin. That way I can check to see if the bolster hole is countersunk or tapered. I will definitely use "slackeners" when I peen the new pin. Thank you again,

Jerry Johnson

[herbva]

Jerry, I just noticed you mentioned "up and down" movement. It is also important to use pin stock that fits the bolster hole somewhat tight, with as little as space as possible to begin with. If there is too much of a gap to begin with, it may be too much of a "reach" to get the pin to expand to fit the hole tight and flush regardless of how well and how much you peen. I also like to lightly run a tapered reamer through the hole even if the hole is already tapered. I figure this may give me a better chance of having the pin head fit flush, with clean metal on metal on contact, and "disappear" in the bolster when you do the finish filing and sanding. I also recommend using pin stock of the same metal as the bolsters - i.e. nickel silver pins with nickel silver bolsters.

[ea42]

Jerry if you need any nickel silver pins give me a shout, I've got a pretty decent variety. I've never worked on a 64 but I'd assume the pin size is somewhere around .080 to .085 or thereabouts. If you have an assortment of different size drill bits try them out in the hole until you find one that just fits, then see what size it is. Do this with the smooth side of the bit, not the fluted side. Definitely countersink those bolsters. They were done at the factory but most of that original countersink was ground off when the bolsters were hafted. When you then haft it a second time you're taking whatever was left off leaving you a nearly straight hole.

I usually use a .005 slackener on one side when I peen the pin. Anything more and I'd get massive blade wobble. I cut a groove in it to fit around the pin, or sometimes I'll make an "L" so that it fits over the top of the pin while staying away from the spring. Sometimes even with the .005 I still have a bit of wobble when I remove the slackener but as I said before if that's the case I just give the pin a couple of taps (and I mean taps, not whacks) to tighten it up a bit. If it does happen to get too tight you can slacken the blade a bit by opening the blade halfway and laying the kick on your stiddy with the blade at about a 45 degree angle, then give the spine a hit with a mallet. Doing this sort of twists the blade a bit which opens the liners just a hair. It's a lot harder to explain than to actually do. I'll often then reverse it, laying the spine of the blade against the stiddy and hitting the kick to even things up. Once you get the hang of it everything goes rapidfire. Put the slackener in, hammer hammer hammer hammer, pull the slackener out, check the blade action, if too tight open it up a bit using the above method, if loose give the pin a couple of taps, done. On to the next knife. Sometimes you'll find that the blade closes fine but is too tight to open in which case you can lay the blade flat on the stiddy and give the bolser a little smack. This in effect gives a little prying action to the end of the knife which will open it up a bit.

OK, I've gone on way more than I intended LOL! Good luck!

Eric

[Jerlin]

Eric, please do not apologize about giving too much information. As I said before, I am new to knife repair and can use all the advise I can get. I went ahead and removed the pivot pin from the two blade end of the knife. I measured the holes in the bolsters and the blades as you directed. They are larger than 5/64"/.078" and smaller than 3/32"/.094". I have no idea what material the bolsters are made of for a Camillus 64. I think I may have used a nail for the bolster pins since I didn't have any pin material and was not planning to do a lot of repairs. If you think nickel silver pin material is what I need I will gladly pay you for the material and postage. You can let me know by PM. There are a few other things that I have questions on since I removed the pivot pin. 1) The bolsters do not look like they presently are countersunk/tapered. I am very limited in my tools. What is a good way to countersink the holes in the bolsters using basic tools? 2) After I removed the pivot pin, I now notice that I did not peen the rocker pin for the springs enough for to make a tight fit between the liner and the spring on one side. What is the best way to correct this? Should I remove the rocker pin and install a new one, or can I tighten the rocker pin by giving it some taps? 3) Will I have to remove the rocker pin anyway to get the new pivot pin in? If I have to remove the rocker pin, I think I will just go ahead and remove the pivot pin from the other end of the knife and just repin everthing as was suggested.

Jerry

[ea42]

Jerry you'd probably be better off removing all the pins and starting over. If you plan on sanding the center pin I'd countersink that hole as well. If instead you're going to peen a head on that pin and not sand it you don't have to countersink, although I'd give it a very slight countersink anyway to account for pin spread as you hammer it.
I've got some nickel silver .082 pins and some .086 pins, I'll send you a few of each for the bolsters. One of them will likely fit in the center hole too. I'll send you a countersink too, I just make them out of drill bits. I'll send you a PM regarding the details this evening.

Eric

[Jerlin]

Thank you, Eric for you helpful assistance. I'll be looking for your PM.

Jerry

[Jerlin]

Eric, Letting you know I just sent you another PM

Jerry Johnson