knife blade material on uncle henry 153 golden spike and 171 pro hunter

[Mark in PA]

I'm curious about the blade material on Uncle Henry fixed blade knives. Specifically the 153 Golden Spike and the 171 Pro Hunter. I was under the impression that all Uncle Henry's were made of stainless steel. I was looking around on Ebay and I had seen at some that had carbon steel blades. It looked like the Chinese versions were stainless. Are the vintage blades stainless or carbon steel? Could there be some of both?

[tongueriver]

I am not sure about the 171 UH, but I know that the very earliest 153 UH knives had non-stainless steel blades. I have one. This did not last long. All faux Schrades from China have stainless steel blades.

[black mamba]

I don't believe any of the Schrade Walden stamped fixed blades used stainless steel. Up through the 1984 catalog the Uncle Henry knives were listed as "Folding knives of rust resistant Schrade + steel." In the 1985 catalog this changed to "Blades of rust resistant Schrade + steel." By then, the 171UH was out of production, to return in 1990, listed with "High Carbon Steel," as was the 153UH. As far as I know, high carbon steel can be either carbon or stainless, depending on the amount of carbon, but it appears that if these fixed blades were ever made with stainless steel, it was for a very short time.

[black mamba]

I did some further checking of the catalogs, and in 1996 they switched back to Schrade + stainless steel for all the Uncle Henry fixed blades 'til the end of production in 2004.

[tongueriver]

The 171 and 153 first appeared in catalogs in 1973. In the summer of that year the tang stamps were changed to eliminate the name "Walden."

[Mark in PA]

Thanks,

So if I got this right, prior to 96 they were carbon steel or non stainless. After 96 they were stainless.

Was this true for any of the other fixed blades?

[tongueriver]

After 1973 or maybe even IN 1973 the UH fixed blade knives (and all other UH knives) were stainless. The only UH knives that were non-stainless existed for a very brief time early on. They could even be called rare.

[Mark in PA]

Seems like I am getting conflicting information.

[LRV]

Found this note on the 153

TO: DAVE BELL / ROCCO CONKLIN L>ATl?: DECEMBER 2, 1994
FROM: JIM ECONOMOS SUBJECT: 153UH
Just a reminder that we will soon be changing the 15300 as follows:
o Blade goes from .165 carbon to .135 stainless
o Grind switches from flat to hollow
o Guard closes up - we don't want to count remaining .165
slotted guards as availablefor use on .135 blades.
o Same for the handles.
Please coordinate with Russell on the timing. This is a running
change in production.
..
~

[tongueriver]

Well, now; that is extremely interesting. I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that an Uncle Henry still had non-stainless blades in 1994. I would have called that memo right on if it had said 1974. To tell you the truth, I would be less surprised to learn that that date was a typo.

[LRV]

I have a couple follow up memos that are in the same years. It does go against our common beliefs that they were all stainless much earlier.
I'll keep digging. It may be that the Stainless they are changing to in 94/95 is a different steel than what was in use? Just a quess.
Anyone else have insight?
Thanks
Larry

[Mark in PA]

Thanks LRV

What is hard to believe is the time period we are talking about is 27 years ago. Almost 30 years. No wonder we have to knock the cob webs out of the gears. It only seems like yesterday but time has slipped away from us and we don't remember things as clearly as we think we should. However, an archived email doesn't lie.

[wv trapper]

A lot of interesting information in this thread, thanks!!

[UnderDawgAl]

My 153UH Golden Spike that I bought brand new around 1985 or 1986 is absolutely stainless steel. I thought all Uncle Henrys in the 80s were stainless.

[tongueriver]

The mystery deepens.

[Mark in PA]

One thing is certain. Some were definitely made with high carbon steel and some were made with stainless.

I'm interested in knowing:
1.) If it was just the 153 Golden Spike and the 171 Pro Hunter or were there also other fixed blades?
2.) What years were the high carbon and what years were the stainless? Was it switched back and forth a couple different times?

[Mark in PA]

By the way, there is a picture of a very nice looking 153 Golden Spike for sale by Hatsumi. Definitely high carbon knife. I've been considering purchasing it even though I prefer the stainless.

[black mamba]

From the catalogs it is clear that Uncle Henry fixed blades sometimes did have different steel than the folders, and that some patterns used stainless and others high carbon. Since the stainless they used was 440A, which has a carbon content above .65 and can be called "high carbon stainless," the change from "high carbon" to "Schrade + stainless" in their catalog copy indicates a different steel. In the 1985 catalog all the UH fixed blades had stainless blades except the 153, which was individually denoted to have High Carbon Steel. During it's briefer history, the 171UH also was listed as having carbon steel blades. The 162, 164, 167, and 168 UH fixed blades always had stainless blades, according to the catalogs. In 1990 they re-introduced the 171 and 172 UH fixed blades, and along with the 153 they are listed as having High Carbon blades, while all other UH knives had the Schrade + stainless, including the 152 and 165 patterns. By 1994 the 153 Golden Spike was the only UH knife listed with High Carbon blades, with the 171 and 172 UHs again being discontinued. In the 1996 catalog even the 153 was finally listed with Schrade + stainless steel.

[Mark in PA]

Can you help me out a little on the blade steel. I admit that I'm not all that knowledgeable.

It appears to me like we have the following different steels.

1.) Schade + which I have no idea what that is other than some sort of stainless or stain resistant steel.
2.) High Carbon Stainless 440A
3.) High Carbon.
4.) From LRV, .165 carbon
5.) From LRV, .135 stainless

Not sure what the .165 and .135 stand for. Could that be the blade thickness?

Are there any other steel designations I may be missing.

I found a web site that has old Schrade catalogs archived. I'm going to dig into them and do some of my own research. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. I just trying to learn as much as I can and become a bit more knowledgeable.

[jxr1197]

Can you help me out a little on the blade steel. I admit that I'm not all that knowledgeable.

It appears to me like we have the following different steels.

1.) Schade + which I have no idea what that is other than some sort of stainless or stain resistant steel.
2.) High Carbon Stainless 440A
3.) High Carbon.
4.) From LRV, .165 carbon
5.) From LRV, .135 stainless

Not sure what the .165 and .135 stand for. Could that be the blade thickness?

Are there any other steel designations I may be missing.

I found a web site that has old Schrade catalogs archived. I'm going to dig into them and do some of my own research. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. I just trying to learn as much as I can and become a bit more knowledgeable.

Schrade+ indicates stainless steel in general, but intentionally not a specific one. They used 440a, 440b, 440c and probably others but they all fell under the Schrade+ umbrella which kept them from having to revise packaging for different steels. You're not going to find enough info to create a perfect chart showing years and steels used. The info just isn't out there. Approximates is as good as it gets most of the time. There's also the issue of them 'being Schrade'. Example - in the 1990s they were getting too many complaints on the 152OT staining (high carbon blade) so their solution was to switch to 440 but they never changed the packaging or tang stamp (or even disclosed it at all) so you have regular high carbon 152s made out of stainless steel. That was them just 'being Schrade'. The site where you found the old catalogs is LRV's site. It's the most comprehensive source of Schrade data you're going to find out there.

[LRV]

The .135 is the steel thickness. The follow up notes talk of adjustments needed to the guard gap. Ill dig that up.
Larry

[LRV]

This may cause a few more comments
Love this stuff...
Larry
(LRV)

[Mark in PA]

Hey, just want to say thanks. You guys are great. You really have provided a lot of information. I think that what we are running into is that these questions are difficult to answer because there is no real documentation on what was done way back when. I think jxr's explanation is as good as any for insight as to why we are talking about generalities.

Really appreciative of those catalogs you have on your website LRV.

While I'm at it, I would like to thank whomever compiled the list of Schrade models on this website. Outstanding.

[LRV]

The list was done by Dale
Check out his store at
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/orvet

Great guy too.

Larry