Fake TESTED XX 5308 sold on ebay

[Mumbleypeg]

Sorry I didn’t catch it sooner but hope no one here bought this fake. https://www.ebay.com/itm/224880079961?h ... 7675.l2557. Although the auction has ended I’m posting it here for educational purposes (maybe if the buyer sees this soon enough they can return it for a refund).

The 5308 was made during the TESTED XX era but they’re rare, and especially so in mint condition. This ain’t one of them! Telltale signs are:

1. The shield on this one is the open C, short S shield which debuted during the late XX era (rarely seen), became commonplace during the XX U.S.A. era, and is typical of 1970s and early 1980’s dotted knives.
2. The tang shows obvious signs of having been “shaved”. Note the shoulder grind (where the tang meets blade) is not straight across from edge to spine - it curves up into the spine. It should be straight across. Although not as prominent on this one as is often seen in other fakes, it’s still not right.
3. Sambar stag - Sambar not used on Tested XX knives.
4. Condition. Although not a certain give-away, on a knife purportedly this old it should for sure turn your #@*+@ detector on. Examine closely! This one has a few other problems too, some of you Eagle-eyed folks will spot them.

Ken

[Beavertail]

I don't see how these people who sell these fakes sleep at night.
Hopefully whoever bought it can get a refund.

[TritonJ]

Thanks for the info, Ken.
I usually don’t venture too deep into the Case pool but love reading these analyses. I’m curious what else the Eagle eye members point out.

Aside from the knife, the seller’s used car salesman lingo in the description raises a red flag for me too.

[rea1eye]

30 day return policy. Hopefully the person did not pay yet ( if they
saw this post)

Thanks for keeping us posted on fakes.

Bob

[btrwtr]

Good post Ken. I hadn't seen this knife before your post. The hafting and stag looks nothing like a Tested era knife. Deifintely looks like the tang has been shaved down. Although the selled says "GREAT FIT AND BEAUTIFUL FINISH!!!" that's not what I see.

There are still mint Case Tested era knives out there for sale but this knife is another looks new, is new example. Doesn't look like a Tested knife.

[1967redrider]

First thing I noticed was the stag, not old Case stag at all.

[TritonJ]

Examine closely! This one has a few other problems too, some of you Eagle-eyed folks will spot them.

Ken I’ve waited for others to speak up as I would like to know more about the wrongs here. I can get to the ebay link that you sent but for some reason the pictures aren’t showing. My phone might have been hacked by the kremlin.

So right now all I’ve got to go by are the posterity pics you attached. When I see pins showing, like on the left side of the shield, it makes me wonder cobbled or not…. Although that may not be reason alone to conclude fake, it is suspicious against the seller’s “mint” description. Plus it’s the wrong shield on the wrong stag as pointed out. Is there more with the tang stamp such as evidence of cold stamping? Anything off with the nail nicks? The seller says no brass in the knife, however the outer handle pins look brass in the pic.

[TPK]

Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us Ken! Appreciate it!

Edit: That's strange. I read your second post about the bolsters before I posted but my post is before your post telling us about the bolsters. I must be in the "Twilight Zone".
Think I need some sleep.

[Mumbleypeg]

Examine closely! This one has a few other problems too, some of you Eagle-eyed folks will spot them.

Ken I’ve waited for others to speak up as I would like to know more about the wrongs here. I can get to the ebay link that you sent but for some reason the pictures aren’t showing. My phone might have been hacked by the kremlin.

So right now all I’ve got to go by are the posterity pics you attached. When I see pins showing, like on the left side of the shield, it makes me wonder cobbled or not…. Although that may not be reason alone to conclude fake, it is suspicious against the seller’s “mint” description. Plus it’s the wrong shield on the wrong stag as pointed out. Is there more with the tang stamp such as evidence of cold stamping? Anything off with the nail nicks? The seller says no brass in the knife, however the outer handle pins look brass in the pic.

Okay since no one else has posted anything, here are some other things that don’t look right to me. Click photos to enlarge.

The bolsters on both the mark and pile sides have damage, possibly caused by the original covers being removed. Thus the stag doesn’t fit well with the bolster, which is highly unusual and even more so on a supposedly Tested XX knife. More on this stag/bolster interface later. And as you pointed out the pins in the shield are showing - not completely unheard of especially on an older knife, but can’t recall seeing a “sunken” shield pin like this one.

Regarding the handle cover-to-bolster interface: there is a phenomena that occurs during hafting and typically manifests in places where the stag or bone has areas where natural indentations from stag “bark” grooves (or bone jigging) adjacent to the bolster. In those places the bolster often has a sunken area. Case’s term for this is “sucking out” of the bolster material. It occurs during hafting, and is caused because the nickel silver in the bolster is softer than stag or bone. In those areas the hafting wheel removes material form the bolster corresponding to any natural indentations in the covers. See pictures below for some examples. These are either knives I have or pictures of knives posted by other members. There are many more examples.

It applies to the knife in question because where gaps exist between the covers and bolsters, I expect to see evidence of “sucking out” of bolster material corresponding to the gaps. When you see a gap or sunken area in the covers but do not see a corresponding adjacent sunken area on the bolster (or visa versa - a sunken area in the bolster but not in the handle covers) it’s an indication those probably aren’t the original factory installed covers. Here’s an article from an old Case Collector’s Club newsletter that explains “sucking out” better.

Ken

[TritonJ]

Thanks for the incredible amount of information. I feel like I sat through a thesis defense.

Let me go back and ask you a question, do you think that the outer pins look brass compared to the nickel silver lower center pin? To me they do, and this is inconsistent with the seller’s description. Did Case Tested XX have any brass in them at all?

[Mumbleypeg]

To my eyes the seller's pictures are inconclusive. In some pictures all the pins look like nickel silver. I suspect those that appear to be brass may be an effect of the lighting.

The only certainty I know of regarding Case's use of nickel silver and brass is that the pins and liners will be of the same material. "Premium" patterns (most 3-blade patterns including whittlers and stockmans), were made with nickel silver liners and pins - there are exceptions, most believe due to the knives having been made during wartime.

Ken

[TritonJ]

Thanks Ken!

[winst]

This kind of FRAUD is doing great damage to our fraternity. I have had so many younger people, that started out buying and trading knives, tell me they were afraid to deal in knives any more. They bought a knife on ebay or at the flea market thinking they were getting a good deal on what appeared to be a valuable model..later finding out they had been duped. It would seem to me that ebay is "aiding and assisting" the sell of fake products. They seem to have no problem spotting switch blade knives almost immediately yet being blind to an obvious "fake" knife and going as far a to promote these fakes as pop-ups when logging on to their auctions. I guess my suggestion is for AAPK to continue to expose these frauds as much as possible by doing what Ken does so well in pointing out these chinks in the armor of these "fakes". Now that's the way I see it through the eyes of a tater......common..tater.

[Mumbleypeg]

This kind of FRAUD is doing great damage to our fraternity. I have had so many younger people, that started out buying and trading knives, tell me they were afraid to deal in knives any more. They bought a knife on ebay or at the flea market thinking they were getting a good deal on what appeared to be a valuable model..later finding out they had been duped.

I agree, and I know exactly how they feel - it has happened to me too. Many years ago I bought a knife that had been my “grail” knife at the time, only to later learn it was a fake. I still remember that feeling of betrayal, and it caused me to swear off knife collecting for a few years. They say “time heals all wounds”, but I couldn’t shake that betrayed feeling. Eventually I decided the fault was mine for being so ignorant as to let someone take advantage of me and steal my money.

That’s when I decided simply trusting what was stamped on the knife was foolish, and started to really study knives and how they are counterfeited. I already liked Case, and that’s what I wanted to continue collecting. So if I was going to collect Case, especially the older ones, I needed to learn as much about Case knives as possible. Case is kind of a two edged sword - it’s the most frequently counterfeited brand but there is also more information available about Case than any brand, making learning possible and enjoyable. And learning means looking at a LOT of knives! What serious collector doesn’t like that? I’m still learning.

My advice to collectors who say they’re giving up collecting knives because they got cheated is to educate yourself. Don’t quit what you enjoy just because it’s not easy. If you go through life doing only what is easy, you’re missing much of what life is about.

Ken

[knifeaholic]

To my eyes the seller's pictures are inconclusive. In some pictures all the pins look like nickel silver. I suspect those that appear to be brass may be an effect of the lighting.

The only certainty I know of regarding Case's use of nickel silver and brass is that the pins and liners will be of the same material. "Premium" patterns (most 3-blade patterns including whittlers and stockmans), were made with nickel silver liners and pins - there are exceptions, most believe due to the knives having been made during wartime.

Ken

Ken; actually that is not true. Many Case knives were made with brass liners and nickel silver handle pins. I have also seen some Case knives with nickel silver liners and with a mix of nickel silver and brass handle pins.

On the very old Case knives, you will often find knives with iron liners and brass handle pins, or with mixed brass and iron handle pins.

[TritonJ]

I’ve wondered how frugal Case might have been and if they mixed materials in Tested XX or XX eras? I guess they did, especially if certain materials were scarce during the depression or war.

I’m not as knowledgeable with these older ones, but as Ken stated I do want to be educated whether I own them or not.

[Mumbleypeg]

To my eyes the seller's pictures are inconclusive. In some pictures all the pins look like nickel silver. I suspect those that appear to be brass may be an effect of the lighting.

The only certainty I know of regarding Case's use of nickel silver and brass is that the pins and liners will be of the same material. "Premium" patterns (most 3-blade patterns including whittlers and stockmans), were made with nickel silver liners and pins - there are exceptions, most believe due to the knives having been made during wartime.

Ken

Ken; actually that is not true. Many Case knives were made with brass liners and nickel silver handle pins. I have also seen some Case knives with nickel silver liners and with a mix of nickel silver and brass handle pins.

On the very old Case knives, you will often find knives with iron liners and brass handle pins, or with mixed brass and iron handle pins.

Thanks Steve, you’re far more observant than me. If I’ve seen any like that I don’t recall them. Like I said, I’m still learning.

Ken