All About Pocket Knives

kootenay joe wrote:Those pics are very interesting. The Canal Street whittler shows that a wedge shaped center liner is not needed. Are the secondaries thinner stock than on the Case ? If not then why is a wedge divider used ? Instead just use the little 'spacer bits' at the secondary end like in the Canal Street knife.
Is there something i am not understanding about whittler construction ?
kj

That main spear on the Canal Street Canitler is pretty thick.

Good picture 67rr. Shows the master blade to be quite 'stout', and secondaries are not especially thin and they all fit without a wedge center divider.
I still do not understand why some whittlers need a center wedge and others like the above CSC, don't.
kj

That “Osage Orange” is a lot better looking than the OP knife. Osage Orange, aka Bois d’Arc, aka Hedge, aka Horse Apple, is a hard, tough wood. I’ve often wondered why it’s not used more often for handle covers, unless it’s too difficult to work it.

The tree is native or adapted over much of North America and widely used for fence posts because it never rots and insects won’t bother it. There should be an ample supply. There’s a 100 year old barbed wire fence on my ranch, built with Bois d’Arc posts. The above ground part of the posts are weathered but hard and strong. If you pull one out of the ground the part that was under ground looks like it was put in last week! You can hammer a staple into a new green post but after that it’s too hard and dense. It’s near impossible to saw a seasoned post - it will ruin a chain saw. Having a greenhorn try to put a fence staple in a seasoned post is a rite of passage - it can’t be done! To repair the fence you have to tie the barbed wire to the posts with baling wire.

Should make some great handle covers!

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote:That “Osage Orange” is a lot better looking than the OP knife. Osage Orange, aka Bois d’Arc, aka Hedge, aka Horse Apple, is a hard, tough wood. I’ve often wondered why it’s not used more often for handle covers, unless it’s too difficult to work it.

The tree is native or adapted over much of North America and widely used for fence posts because it never rots and insects won’t bother it. There should be an ample supply. There’s a 100 year old barbed wire fence on my ranch, built with Bois d’Arc posts. The above ground part of the posts are weathered but hard and strong. If you pull one out of the ground the part that was under ground looks like it was put in last week! You can hammer a staple into a new green post but after that it’s too hard and dense. It’s near impossible to saw a seasoned post - it will ruin a chain saw. Having a greenhorn try to put a fence staple in a seasoned post is a rite of passage - it can’t be done! To repair the fence you have to tie the barbed wire to the posts with baling wire.

Should make some great handle covers!

Ken

Ken, that's good to know! We use Mountain (Black) Locust trees for posts and they seem to get as hard as concrete when they dry. I always thought the Osage Orange "fruit" looked like monkey brains, wish we had some around the farm.

John

John, is that huge tree a Black Locust ?
I would like to see a picture of an Osage Orange tree as well. Thanks for posting some information about this tree/wood Ken.
I have not heard of it growing in Canada. I used split cedar for my fence posts and now 35 years later they have all rotted off right at ground level.
kj

Am I making a mistake in not buying one of these with the acrylic handles? I have passed twice on these. I was unable to sign up for the early reserve, we were in the middle of putting our dog down when that came out. I keep hoping I will be able to get one in snakewood, but beginning to wonder if I might miss out by passing on these. Any idea how many snakewood were made and which dealers will have them? I’m just not impressed with these acrylic handles. But having one of those would be better than missing out all together.

kootenay joe wrote:John, is that huge tree a Black Locust ?
I would like to see a picture of an Osage Orange tree as well. Thanks for posting some information about this tree/wood Ken.
I have not heard of it growing in Canada. I used split cedar for my fence posts and now 35 years later they have all rotted off right at ground level.
kj

Those were Osage Orange pictures; tree and fruit. Every now and then while hiking around Virginia and Western MD I'll see the "fruit" on the ground, about the size of large grapefruit.

Sharpnshinyknives wrote:Am I making a mistake in not buying one of these with the acrylic handles? I have passed twice on these. I was unable to sign up for the early reserve, we were in the middle of putting our dog down when that came out. I keep hoping I will be able to get one in snakewood, but beginning to wonder if I might miss out by passing on these. Any idea how many snakewood were made and which dealers will have them? I’m just not impressed with these acrylic handles. But having one of those would be better than missing out all together.

I don't think you're missing anything by passing on the grits, butter and molasses. That's one butt ugly handle if you ask me. $125 FOR THAT . no,no,no!

kootenay joe wrote:Good picture 67rr. Shows the master blade to be quite 'stout', and secondaries are not especially thin and they all fit without a wedge center divider.
I still do not understand why some whittlers need a center wedge and others like the above CSC, don't.
kj

Perhaps this is the best way to look at Whittlers. Excepting three long blade whittlers that require three springs, all assemblies other than split backs are for manufacturing cost reduction. While GEC collectors begging for rationalizations to add to their collection obviously are not seeking lower cost, some of us appreciate less expensive knives. My eBay NIB three spring Case 6308 and 6347 Whittlers cost me under $35 and $40 respectively. They have the same blades that case has used to assemble those patterns as split back since at least 1990. Good luck finding Case NIB split backs for under $40.

By the way, Queen made Canoe Whittlers with normal thin blades. If my memory is any good mine is a split back.

To get this thread back on track I'll add that I do not know of any other new carbon steel knives that have a sheep's foot and punch secondaries. Getting an other wise unavailable selection of blades in the size of knife you want is good reason to pay GEC's prices. Using three springs was a way for GEC to get around the cost of assembling split backs that does not require extra thick blade stock.

TSA Knives just listed about one dozen of the Stockyard Whittlers in its online store.
Nice looking knives and about 3 of them have been sold already.

Sharpnshinyknives wrote:Am I making a mistake in not buying one of these with the acrylic handles? I have passed twice on these. I was unable to sign up for the early reserve, we were in the middle of putting our dog down when that came out. I keep hoping I will be able to get one in snakewood, but beginning to wonder if I might miss out by passing on these. Any idea how many snakewood were made and which dealers will have them? I’m just not impressed with these acrylic handles. But having one of those would be better than missing out all together.

Mark, you might like the Coffee House Acrylic better. So far this pic is all we've got but it will probably look pretty good when finished. I'm trying to imagine the flat section on that piece on the far left all polished up and I'm liking what my brain is seeing.

Hello Gents, been a while since I’ve been on (life and what not)
Love the wealth of information you guys bring to this forum. Didn’t know that about whittlers or Osage wood. I just recently picked up one of these 29’s in Osage wood and I love the feel of it in hand. I also like the blade length on the main blade but... I do have a an issue. When I started using it I realized that there is blade play on that main blade and it’s just enough to bother me. I was wondering if anyone else who has picked up one of these has experienced the same issue and is that something that GEC would be able to tighten up or is that just generally a non fixable defect in the knife? I haven’t experienced this so far with other patterns I’ve gotten and use on a regular basis.

JET79, i do not yet have one of these but i too am bothered by blade play so i hope a bunch of #29 owners reply so we can find out how common this is. With old knives i have gently squeezed the bolsters/pivot pin in a vice. Sometimes this has removed blade play but i don't recommend this for a new knife. I think you should contact GEC and see what they suggest.
kj

kootenay joe wrote:JET79, i do not yet have one of these but i too am bothered by blade play so i hope a bunch of #29 owners reply so we can find out how common this is. With old knives i have gently squeezed the bolsters/pivot pin in a vice. Sometimes this has removed blade play but i don't recommend this for a new knife. I think you should contact GEC and see what they suggest.
kj

I have 2 29s so far, both are acrylic though. I just checked the blades on them, and neither had any play. I have not used either one yet though.

I would definitely contact GEC to ask about them fixing it. It may take a little bit longer than normal to get it done right now due to the rendezvous later this week, but I imagine they'll fix you up.

I've handled two 29's and nether one had any side to side play, on all blades. Now the pull on the main blade could by a bit stronger, but thats just my taste, pull on the other blades is very nice. I am impressed on the fit and finish and like the way it feels in hand although the extra width could make it feel a little bulky in pocket.

I'm not sure why they call it a whittler, wouldn't it be a cattle knife ?

I agree it could be a Cattle except a Cattle knife should have a Spear Point master blade. You could say "3 spring Cattle Whittler", but a Whittler by definition has 2 springs, and master bears on both. Since this knife has neither of the defining features of a whittler knife, we really should just drop any reference to "whittler".
This pattern needs it's own name. Any good suggestions ?
kj

call it what you will. I bought it because I'm now a full blown dead walkin GEC zombie. All I know is I like it a whole lot better in person. feels great and Hedgeapple wood is very attractive.

Is "Hedgeapple" Osage Orange ?
kj

The #29 Burnt Sienna jigged bone knives are selling out fast. (400) pieces each

The SFO #29 stockyard whittler Coffee house acrylic knives are finished and ready to be shipped out soon.

1. A "cattle knife" should have a spey blade. Unfortunately the term has come to be more based on the shape of the frame than on its original purpose.

2. Yes, "hedgeapple" is the same tree as Osage Orange. The tree has dense orange colored wood, nearly impervious to decay, rot and insects. It was originally native to the middle part of the continental U.S. Widely prized by native Americans for use in making bows, hence its also being known as "Bois d'Arc" (wood of the bow) which was a name given the tree by French trappers who also traded with the native tribes. Because native American tribes (attributed to the Osage tribe) traded the wood and seed with other tribes the tree was spread geographically to other areas, and another of its names "Osage Orange".

However probably the biggest contributor to its spread is the trees' thorns and dense growth habit, which made it useful to farmers and homesteads as a barrier fence or "hedge row" . If planted in a solid row it becomes a near impenetrable barrier. Hence another name for the tree - "Hedge" . Farmers and ranchers also used the tree for making fence posts and for use as foundation piers for buildings. When burned the wood has extremely high BTU but it also pops and throws off sparks/cinders so needs a good screen or enclosure.

Following the Depression Era "dustbowl" the U.S. government promoted planting of the tree in rows as shelter belts from wind. Female trees bear fruit which is round pale green and softball-sized. Hence another name for the tree is "hedgeapple" . Although not a preferred food for livestock, horses and cattle will sometimes eat the fruit which gave it yet another common name, "Horse Apple".

Same tree, many uses, many names. More than you wanted to know I suspect. And it does make nice knife handle covers. Should be near-indestructible.

Ken

Mumbleypeg wrote:1. A "cattle knife" should have a spey blade. Unfortunately the term has come to be more based on the shape of the frame than on its original purpose.

2. Yes, "hedgeapple" is the same tree as Osage Orange. The tree has dense orange colored wood, nearly impervious to decay, rot and insects. It was originally native to the middle part of the continental U.S. Widely prized by native Americans for use in making bows, hence its also being known as "Bois d'Arc" (wood of the bow) which was a name given the tree by French trappers who also traded with the native tribes. Because native American tribes (attributed to the Osage tribe) traded the wood and seed with other tribes the tree was spread geographically to other areas, and another of its names "Osage Orange".

However probably the biggest contributor to its spread is the trees' thorns and dense growth habit, which made it useful to farmers and homesteads as a barrier fence or "hedge row" . If planted in a solid row it becomes a near impenetrable barrier. Hence another name for the tree - "Hedge" . Farmers and ranchers also used the tree for making fence posts and for use as foundation piers for buildings. When burned the wood has extremely high BTU but it also pops and throws off sparks/cinders so needs a good screen or enclosure.

Following the Depression Era "dustbowl" the U.S. government promoted planting of the tree in rows as shelter belts from wind. Female trees bear fruit which is round pale green and softball-sized. Hence another name for the tree is "hedgeapple" . Although not a preferred food for livestock, horses and cattle will sometimes eat the fruit which gave it yet another common name, "Horse Apple".

Same tree, many uses, many names. More than you wanted to know I suspect. And it does make nice knife handle covers. Should be near-indestructible.

Ken

Ken, what an informative piece. I've known Bois d'Arc trees all my life and now I know the why in their name. Horse apples make good targets.

Thanks Ken. Not more than i wanted to know but more than i knew there was to know. All very interesting. The pictures of the #29 with this wood make it look rather plain and not interesting. Likely better in person when you can see the grain. Vintage USA knives with wood handles are either ebony or cocobolo. Wonder why Osage Orange was not used as it is a native USA tree and likely easier to obtain and cheaper to buy.
I would like to get some seeds and see if they can survive in Southern B.C. now that our winters have become rather mild.
kj

kootenay joe wrote:Thanks Ken. Not more than i wanted to know but more than i knew there was to know. All very interesting. The pictures of the #29 with this wood make it look rather plain and not interesting. Likely better in person when you can see the grain. Vintage USA knives with wood handles are either ebony or cocobolo. Wonder why Osage Orange was not used as it is a native USA tree and likely easier to obtain and cheaper to buy.
I would like to get some seeds and see if they can survive in Southern B.C. now that our winters have become rather mild.
kj

Roland, some people consider them 'weed' trees as they are so thorny and so messy. They produce a lot of their 'fruit' that has a milky issue when bruised and they rot on the ground. You might not want them after they start. IMO.