All About Pocket Knives

This is the first early Schrade Walden 8OT I've had in my hands. The clip blade is stamped Schrade over Walden over NY USA on the front. It is not stamped 8OT on the back. The long pull and swedge are diffrent from anything I've seen. The knife dose not look to have ever been apart or cleaned.

My question is, dose the knife look right to you?

Thanks,
Keith

ozzie
I thought that Schrade Waldens always had dots between the initials of N.Y. and U.S.A.
I went back to all the schrade Waldens I own and they all have them.
Dont know for sure tho.

Keith:
That blade is really more like a Camillus blade than a Schrade, but as we know, there were shared parts from time to time. If you see some Sears Craftsman knives built on a Schrade 80 frame, you will see that particular blade, and sometimes on an Ulster too. As far as the pattern not being on the back side, I do not think it is necessarily related, but it might be. Sometimes it was just left off. I have several 8OT's marked Schrade Walden, as well as other knives built off of the same frame with different handle material:



I believe in the 1960's, when they were making the Schrade Walden version of the 8OT, each blade got finished by hand, and a slight variance in grinds is apparent. Generally the swedge on an 8OT went back above the nail nick, on the spine where it flattened out. It is not apparent in my picture on each knife. On yours, and on my examples below, that swedge is like cookie cutter identical.

My examples where the blade is shaped like that, it stops at the same spot each time. Right where the spine changes direction.





I see examples from time to time where Schrade, Ulster, Imperial, Camillus, and Craftsman knives have inter mingling of parts.

To echo Gino, I have not looked at all of my Schrade Walden's, but I can say all so far have periods between N.Y. and U.S.A. I'm not sure what that means either.

Keith,
I would like to borrow your picture for some research I am doing on Schrade tang stamps. That is the first I am aware of with the missing periods after the N & Y.

I am inclined to think Hal is on to something when he mentioned Camillus.
The first pic I have here are two S.C.C.+ 886UHs, both made by Camillus. I have documented the S-cards on the knives with the S.C.C.+ stamp, and Tom Williams told me that the S.C.C.+ tang stamp is one that Camillus used for Schrade on a number of patterns. In addition I have copies of a purchase order for thousands of blades from Camillus for Schrade. IIRC the PO is for the 8OT, but I cannot find it at the moment. So we do know that Camillus made those type swedges.

So, I think Hal is right and Camillus may have made the blades. Notice that the two S.C.C.+ 886UHs both have that type of swedge cut on them.

But Schrade could have cut them as well.
In the second pic notice an Imperial and a Craftsman with that type of swedge. These appear to be made with the Swinden system. If that is true, they could only have been put together in the Schrade factory, as they were the only ones with the Swinden machine. Who knows where the blades were made, but they could have been made by Schrade, Camillus or even by Imperial.

These little mysteries keep Schrade collecting from getting boring!

Dale

Kieth, maybe your knife doesn't have the Swinden key system and used the more common pinned bolster and blades? It's possible that Camillus made the knife. I personally would rather have the non-swinden key, pinned, Camillus knife.
thawk, that DE knife must have been ahead of it's time because it has what looks like the New Grind blades on it, like the knives Case Cutlery made for a year or so back in the 1980's, before discontinuing them.

Aimus

Aimus Moses wrote:Kieth, maybe your knife doesn't have the Swinden key system and used the more common pinned bolster and blades? It's possible that Camillus made the knife. I personally would rather have the non-swinden key, pinned, Camillus knife.

Aimus

Aimus, why would you rather have a pinned bolster knife than a Swinden?
I am just curious if you don’t like the Swinden or what?

Aimus Moses wrote:
thawk, that DE knife must have been ahead of it's time because it has what looks like the New Grind blades on it, like the knives Case Cutlery made for a year or so back in the 1980's, before discontinuing them.

Aimus

Well, I have said before I don’t know much about Case, but I do know that Camillus was using that type of swedge grind long before the 1980s.
Here is a pic of a late 1940s or 1950s Camillus #72 with that type of Swedge grind. I know the #72 Camillus pattern goes back into at least the 1930s and maybe even earlier, as per Tom Williams. To the best of my knowledge that is the way they have always been ground. I have not seen a #72 without that type of swedge grind. Camillus seemed to use that grind quite a bit, which is what makes me think that they may have made the blades for Keith’s knife.

Dale

Just to keep things interesting, and exactly what I am referring to as far as interchangeable parts. Here is my 886UH, up next to a Schrade N.Y. 885UH. They both have the Schrade swedge, so I assume Schrade blade. The dude on the grinder did not finish the swedge along the spine above the pull, likely because the pull is too fat and close to the edge. The pulls on 885UH stock knives varied quite a bit too.

They are surrounded by a couple different version DE 353's. The stamps are different, and the shield is a touch different too.

Aimus, this DE series from the 1960's, unlike a lot of Imperials a real well made knife, and the blades are gorgeous. If there is a fault, the Delrin is a bit brittle and prone to pin cracks.

Hi Dale, don't take me wrong, I do not dis-like the swinden key made knives. I know there are some very good knives made with the swinden key system and I own many of them with that system. I know that Imperial Schrade (the only real Schrade) made production faster using the swinden key system. I guess you could just call me old fashioned for liking the regular pinned bolster type knives. Replacing a single broken blade is a lot easier for me on the regular pinned bolster type knives. The reason I thought Keith's Schrade Old Timer knife could have possibly been made by Camillus is because I remember reading a post that MM and you had about two Schrade Uncle Henry trapper pattern knives with noticeable differences, and you said that Schrade would call on Camillus to help build some of their knives because there was no reason the owner of both factories would have a factory setting idle when it had knife orders to fill. I think you also said that Camillus didn't have the swinden key system set up like Schrade. I don't knock the swinden key system made knives at all. Just a personal preference of regular bolster pinned over swinden key I guess. The way I look at it, any U.S.A. made knife is better than those China-Pakistan knives to me.
I've had a few older knives, some of cheaper quality and some not, that had the blades ground like the Case New Grind knives were. I've often wondered if Case borrowed that ideal from them to try to cut production costs.

Aimus

thawk the swedge cuts on those Imperial DE knive's clip blades looks a lot like the swedge cuts on the Imperial Frontier brand knives from the 70's and 80's, and some of the Sears knives. I like a blade with swedge cuts and long pulls myself. Nice bunch of knives there.

Aimus

Aimus,
I agree that the pin bolsters are easier to work on.
That is why Buck moved their slip joints to Camillus from Schrade. Schrade would not produce them without the Swinden system.

The reason I have heard most often is that if a blade loosens up (usually from prying with the blade) you cannot tighten the blade in a Swinden knife like you can in a pinned bolster knife. I think a Swinden knife is less likely to loosen with a little prying than a pinned bolster knife is, but I think it is just slightly less likely.
I do think the system was developed in an attempt to help control production costs. However, I have not seen any data from Schrade to support or deny that idea.

It was not a question with a right or wrong answer, simply to satisfy my curiosity as to why you preferred the pinned bolster knives.

Thank you for your answer.
Dale

Great information on this puzzle

Hawke, the blade on that DE looks like an exact match, Great Photos

Thanks,
Keith

I was doing more research on Schrade tang stamps and going through some of the knives I have.
I found a Schrade Walden 196 that does not have the periods after the N & Y in N.Y.
The tang stamp is the same as the stamp on Keith's 8 OT in the first post of this thread.

Usually when I see a Schrade Walden tang stamp it has periods behind the NY and the USA.
Neither of these stamps have those periods.

BK Brooks listed a stamp in his chart, published in Knife World, June 2004, that showed a similar stamp but with periods behind the N & Y and none in USA.
It is the second stamp from the left in the bottom row of his chart listed below. As I have been researching I have found 3 or 4 stamps not listed on that chart.
It has become very interesting research!

As most of you know, no one loves a Schrade mystery more than I do!

Dale

More unconcluding images of blades against the Schrade Walden 8 frame size with the swedged blade. a short while ago Keith put the knife up for sale, which I grabbed as soon as I noticed it, right here on AAPK. From the knives I have, Two Frontier (Imperial) Craftsman, possibly Camillus, Ulster 98, All blades are slightly different! the closest seems to be the Ulster?? Although the match striker is not the same.

Russell

Hi from Australia,
I have pulled out some of my 4 inch knives. - Some of the Pre 1973 knives have very faint stamping.
As stated in earlyer posts - some Swedgers are fater then others, and close to the edge.
Most of my knives are NIB and have never been out of their packets until today.
All of the Walden knives are marked on the back side of the main blade with a number.
The two 935 John Primbel knifes where made by Schrade and sold for $$4.57 in 1971.
The Buck 301 was also made by Schrade, about the same time.
I have also taken this opportunity to take some pitchers of my Walden 880s and 881s,
I have quite a number of the 881s stamped Schrade NY also, but they do not have the match-strike pull.
If I can help by putting more pitchers up, Please let me know.
My collection starts in the 1960’s and finished up after the factory closed down…..Ken

Koldy, those are some right smart #8's. I don't recognize that blue one. If you come across an odd bone one that doesn't fit with the rest of yours, I can give you some relief. I would even pay to get it over here.

Hi,
The blue Schrader is a 3 blade Premium large Stockman, 4 inchs long when closed. 
The blades ( clip, splay and sheep’s foot ) are all made of Schrade + steel.
It has Nickel silver bolsters, and brass liners.
The Handles are made of, Genuine BLUE - ROPE CUT BONE .(Not Staglon or Delrin)

This very RARE  knife was made in 2004, however they where never sold.
It was purchased at the Schrade factory Closing Down Sales in July 2004.
I can not  find any information on these knives. 
There is no indication that they had ever been produced. 
It is also very rare to find a schrade knife with a genuine bone handle, and even more rare when it has " ROPE CUT " Handles.  This knife is definitely a rare find.

The pictures of this knife do not come close to doing it justice. 
It is an absolutely beautiful  knife, that  would make a great addition to anyone's collection.
It did not come in a box, I had two and sold one and keeped one....Ken

I like the OTC 8O 4inch knife, almost as much as my #320 Schrade D'Holder.