MANUAL HAND OPENING MECHANISMS

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:32 pm

Man has always wanted to have something different in his pocket a bit bigger, sharper , harder ( steel ) or unusual in some way to stand out in a crowd . It is after all the nature of the beast. This posting involves early examples of these alternate attempts. Many of these items opened with the assist of a spring which would propel the blade out into the open position. ( ie switchblade) However there is an an entire spectrum of knifes which opened by manual mechanical methods. This type of knife has a long history to long for me to pictorialy represent in 3 pics which is all I can post at one time. So I decided to start at the beginning. One of the earliest American patents of this type was the Wilzen patent ( automatic knife company). In the pic with the folding knives and a red border the top knife is a Wilzen made in CT around 1890 ( approx ) ie the automatic knife company). These knives had a lever on each end and would open approximately 30 degrees and the the rest of the way by hand. the one in the pic has the embossed handles with a pic of old bicycle riders. It also lost one blade and was repaired it is a very old repair and the knife functions correctly but with only one blade. This patent was sold to the Hatch knife company the next knife down is an example of a hatch. the one below that is a LEVER which was made by Napanoch again a similar mech except that instead of pushing the lever sideways you pushed sidwise and down. The knife below that is an English PELLET knife called this because on top of each blade is a small piece ( ie pellet) which you pushed with your thumb to open the knife. This one is rather unusual in that the sides and the pellets are real gold. I do not know how they over 100 years ago adhered the pellets to the steel blades. the next group with the red borders are from let to right a novelity patent a form of gravity knife the second and forth are also gravity and the third is an old push knife. Gravitys as the name implies are held downward the blade is released and then locked in place. There are many variations of the gravity knife some much less innocuous than these ( however again I am limited by space ). These in fact were used as erasers when a person made a mistake while writing the mistake was carefully scraped from the page and corrected. The last group with just a white border are from the top a Leppington ( english no tang However I know the knife and who produced it ) you push the bent levers down to open, a button ring turn similar to a ring turn but opened with the base of the thumb turning the wheel instead of the thumb and forefinger as in most models this was handy fou unlike a regular ring turn it could not get caught on anything. This is also an english knife but I actually got it from Australia. The next is another hatch it also has lost a blade over the last 100 years however I found it interesting since due to the handles missing ect it is possible to view the mech. the last knife is a standard Schrade Cut ring turn. Again this is just the beginning of this history push knives cam knives ect continue to this day. So again if any one responds or shows an interest I will post some more . I hope you enjoy the pics. LT

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:55 pm

You have to ask?????
We are knife knuts.............we want more pictures.

It is quite interesting to me to see the forerunners of today's assisted opening knives (of which I own several) and see how similar, and how different they were to today's knives.

Dale

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:25 pm

Hello lt. There are two knives (German & French) mechanical knives shown in a recent post in the QA section. If you have the time, perhaps you could look at them please and provide any information you might have. Thanks.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 5507#15507

s-k

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:56 pm

Both of these while interesting really do not fall into the mechanical types I was refering to. The one with the saw is I believe of modern manufacture and simply utilizes the ring to unlock the blade. The ratchet knife is a regular pocket knife that employs a ratchet mech. To validate my opinion notice the nail niches in both knives showing that they open as a regular knife. I would suggest that since it is a very old piece the years of use have worn the ratchet system to allow a gravity effect or loosining to allow the knife to be opened quickly with perhapes a flicking of the wrist. LT

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:34 am

Thanks for the clarification lt. Here is an example of a knife with both a ring turn mechanism and a nail nick for regular opening. I believe this to be from c1920s.

s-k

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:12 pm

S-K
That is a very pretty knife. Are the scales celluloid or ivory? I have a knife with similar scales (unfortunately it isn't a ring turn), but I am not sure what they are made of. I thought they are celluloid but wasn't 100% sure.

Dale

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:28 pm

Dale the uniform straight lines in the pattern of the scales identify it as a man made material, Ivory has lines but they are uneven since they are growth lines ( like a finger nail ) nature has very few straight and parallel lines.

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:40 pm

Hello everyone.

orvet wrote:S-K
That is a very pretty knife. Are the scales celluloid or ivory? I have a knife with similar scales (unfortunately it isn't a ring turn), but I am not sure what they are made of. I thought they are celluloid but wasn't 100% sure.Dale

Thanks Dale. I believe the handles are faux ivory or, as I like to call it, genuine ivorine. Ivorine is Caesin which is actually a resin made from a dairy bi-product. It is more stable then true celluloid i.e much more resistant to shrinkage and doesn't 'gassout' It was quite popular early in the 1920s and 30s.

Please see http://www.plastiquarian.com

Click on people and polymers There is a timeline in the evolution of 'plastic' including a description and history etc.

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:22 pm

I have corrected my post and want to thankyou for the site on plastics very interesting you sure come up with some great references. Thanks again. LT

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:32 pm

Thanks lt and you're welcome. Just happy to contribute where I can. I am learning so much from you and the others in this forum. Anyone interested in some nice genuine ivory, please see my fish knives post in the fixed blade forum. Thanks

s-k

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:36 pm

LT,
That is what I thought, the lines in both examples are so uniform that I was pretty sure it was a man made material. It is just that (living in America) I cannot think of anything I own that is real ivory. It has been so removed from our lives by the current laws (not saying that is good or bad, just is), that I cannot think of a single item I own that is made, all or in part, of ivory. Ergo, I am a very poor judge of what ivory looks like.

S-K,
The plastics site is very informative, thanks.

Dale

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:44 pm

You're welcome Dale. I do not mean to usurp the thread. Here is an ivory pen knife for comparison. I think it illustrates the point that lt made earlier about the uniform lines vs the natural growth.

s-k

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:09 pm

S-K,
I don't think is is usurping to chase a rabbit that wanders across your path.

I see what you mean about the lines. I happened to look at a knife setting in front of my PC & realized that it is possibly ivory also. It is a Mappin & Webb stamped on both tangs with Trustworthy stamped on the back of each tang. The scale on the back side is broken.

Do you think it is ivory?

Thanks LT & S-K

Dale

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:20 pm

H dale. I'd say that it does look like ivory in my opinion. Hard to say forsure. M and Trustworthy were the trademarks of Mappin & Webb. This co made folding knives in the 1800s but gradually shifted its focus to silver and silver plate goods (tea services, candlesticks etc). By the early 1900s they were pretty much out of the pocket knife business but still exist today as a purveyor of silver items. Looks like a great old knife. Thanks.

s-k

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:56 pm

Thanks S-K,
I had no idea it was that old. If I could find an old ivory piano key I could fix the back scale, but that probably isn't too likely.
Thanks for the info. It is always nice to be able to put an approximate date on a knife.

Dale

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:02 pm

orvet wrote:Thanks S-K,
I had no idea it was that old. If I could find an old ivory piano key I could fix the back scale, but that probably isn't too likely.
Thanks for the info. It is always nice to be able to put an approximate date on a knife.

Dale

I did see some piano keys a while back on ebay, that may be a good place to look. They were being sold for using on knives as antique elephant ivory.

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:46 pm

orvet, there are lots of ivory piano keys on ebay now. some are inexpensive.

smiling-knife · Post by **smiling-knife** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:09 pm

I don't know anything about repairing pocket knives but what about taking the ivory from something like this.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Victorian-silver- ... dZViewItem

Let me know if you think this is a good idea and I'll get you one.

s-k

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:06 pm

Thanks S-K for your kind offer, but in checking ebay as Hukk & Johnny suggested I found a plethora of ivory piano keys for sale, some in my home town. If they turn out to be too thin I may still take you up on your kind offer.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions,

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:19 am

Dale, having not been around pianos before. Could you let me know the approximate thickness of the ivory when/if you get some? These may be an inexpensive solution for a project I have been thinking about. Much appriciated.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:28 am

MM,
I have been told by sellers that they are from 1/32" to 1.5mm or .059". The guy who said 1.5mm or .059" probably measured them. I am going to bid on some so we will see if I win them.

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:49 pm

ok, thanks, that might work. I may have to try and snag a few.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:39 pm

orvet wrote:MM,
I have been told by sellers that they are from 1/32" to 1.5mm or .059". The guy who said 1.5mm or .059" probably measured them. I am going to bid on some so we will see if I win them.

Dale

.059, just a hair shy of 1/16".

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:54 pm

thanks hukk