A perfect example of employee ingenuity

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Here is the spring from a schrade open stock 899 I recently purchased off ebay. The knife was in OK condition, decent snap, gummed up real bad, and the main blade was warped a bit but I fixed that, I disassembled the knife for a thurough cleaning and such and here is what I found. Apparently the kick on the sheepsfoot blade was too short, or they ground too much of the spring off, and it must have allowed the nick to go beyond the liner. To correct this without wasting a spring they punched the side of it to draw the spring out and make up for the lost material, resulting in the blade stopping at the proper place. I thought this may be of interest you you fellas. Well, back out to the shop to finish rebuilding it.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Very interesting M-M

Thanks,
Dale

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:32 pm

good example, kaleb. the books on repair are good but experience makes the cutler. seeing how they can work the steel is an education in itself.

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:03 pm

a couple hours in the shop, some polishing, cleaning, and she is back pretty close to origional. Granted-it's not mint, but that isn't what I was aiming for, after a knife has been cleaned it's not mint, nor anything else other than cleaned to look shiney.
It was pitted, that was my main reason for polishing the blades down, then I brought them back to a brushed matte finish like it was origionally. I was kinda dissapointed with it when I recieved it, the blades hardly snapped, which I knew was due to gunk-so that wasn't a problem, but the spine was wavy as a snake, I'm glad I could fix that; but thats just the chance you take buying from vuage auctions. The sheepsfoot blade and punch rubbed pretty bad, so I did some tuning and got that straigtened out, and now they all snap open and closed with authority. The secondary blades were kinda weak, so I tried bending it, like mentioned in another thread. I had tried this once before on another knife, I guess it was too far gone as it didn't work, on this one it did, they snap open and closed hard now. I took a little bit off the kick of the sheepsfoot blade because the point snagged stuff. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. The nice thing about keyhole knives is you can take out 1 pin and disasemble the knife, without having to worry about getting good fit on the bolster pins-because there are none. When I get a keyhole knife that is gunked up and kinda rough around the edges I don't think twice about popping the rocker pin out and going to town. The mainblade is real sharp, and I haven't even put it on a stone yet,which I'll be doing later tonight. Should make a fine EDC. I just looooove these turkish clip blades

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:36 pm

Well done young fellow...

...it looks really good.

Bill

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:45 pm

It looks great Kaleb!

Do you have a before pic to compare it to?

Nice work,
Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:03 pm

Thanks guys
Dale, I kick myself for not taking a before pic, I wish I would have. But you know how it is when you get as new knife that needs work, out to the shop without a second thought

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:10 am

Looks great. I too love the Schrades with a Turkish clip blade. I like the punch blade as well. They come in handy some times. I have yet to get them both on one knife.
Nick

justold52 · Post by **justold52** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:17 am

MM; back to a brushed matte finish like it was origionally.

Real nice work Thanks for saveing the old now new makeover SCHRADE.

Diligence · Post by **Diligence** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:03 am

Just a quick question about the knife not having bolster pins - can you elaborate a bit? I'm wondering how to disassemble the knife without pulling the bolster pins?

I guess I'm confused

I've been lurking here for a while and just LOVE Muskrat Man's retrofits...they are great.

thanks!
D

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:54 am

The knives without the bolster pins are put together with a system called the Swinden Key.

Cut the rocker pin (the pin in the middle of the spring) and give the handles a partial turn to the left (about 10 degrees) and it will fall apart in you hand. The pin is there, it just has a head on it that is in a slot in the bolster.

I will see if I can find picture of the Swinden Key and post it.

I hope this helps,
Dale

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:00 am

Here is a pic of the Swinden Key. It was posted by a fellow at BF.

I hope it helps,
Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:45 pm

Dale said it all, there is a pin that assembles the "guts" then there is a head on either side of the pin and it twist locks into slots in the bolsters.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:59 am

Here is a quick scan of an Old Timer I had in pieces.

In the upper piece, you can see the key hole in the outside liner that still has bolsters & scales intact.

In the lower piece, you can see the head on the end pin that goes through the blade & center liner and the end of the opposite back spring. The pin had a head on both ends and the only way to replace them would be with a miniature rivet or to make heads on a pin somehow.

LT says the easiest way to repair then is to drill out the bolsters and put a pin all they way through, like a standard knife.

I seem to recall a story about a company that Schrade made slipjoints for (IIRC it may have been Buck). The company loved the knives but wanted Schrade to change the knives from Swinden to the regular pin-through-bolster construction, so that could repair them in-house without sending them back to Schrade. If I remember the story correctly, Schrade refused and the company stopped having Schrade make their knives.

I may not have the details right, & I don't remember where I heard the story, but the point is; even if you are a knife company, unless you are setup to replace the Swinden keys, they are a pain to work on.

I hope the pic helps. It was clearer to me than the drawing.
Dale

Diligence · Post by **Diligence** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:49 am

Wow - I learn something new every day. I had never heard of that method before.

I guess a person doesn't necessarily know if a knife has this fabrication or not. So I suppose, to fix a brand "X" knife, you would just pop out the rocker pin and see what happens?

Thanks again.

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:51 am

nice bit of info there Dale,

Diligence, if you are still in question as to the construction, I have a 77OT in pieces and I can take some close ups of how everything is assembled, maybe we should make a sticky on the keyholes?

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:00 am

If you can see the pivot pin in the bolster, you can be pretty sure it isn't a Swinden. But, it is possible to polish a nickel silver pin in a nickel silver bolster to the point that you cannot see it.

Here is an example of what I mean. This is a knife I just built out of an old Camillus TL-29.
Now you can see the pivot pin, because I screwed up & had to peen it. However, there are 4 other nickle silver pins in the bolster that are holding the bolster on to the liner. I can't even find them when I am holding the knife in my hand.

So, just because you don't see a pivot pin, it doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't one there. You may indeed have to cut the rocker pin and see what happens.

I hope this didn't muddy the waters too much......

Dale

Diligence · Post by **Diligence** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:01 am

Thanks MM...I think I understand the construction, but I'm not sure how a person knows if the knife in question has bolster pins or a swinden key. Is it dependant on the brand, or model?

I've dabbled a bit in the past with liner lock folders, but have recently rediscovered the 10 year old kid in me....and have remembered how much my first little 3 blade schrade slipjoint meant to me. Now I want to try to emulate you MM....

Orvet...thanks for the extra info....real nice electrician's knife!

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:19 am

i think that type construction was mainly schrade. i'm not sure. someone who knows speak up.

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:47 am

Dale- I believe you are right about Buck. They went over to Camillus after they left Schrade.

Muskrat Man- How do you remove the rocker pin without damaging the Delrin? Does the kitchen knife do the trick? I have a Schrade model 893 with just the turkish clip and sheepfoot blades. The sheepsfoot has gone sleepy & I wanted to bring it back to life without chewing up the Delrin.

Schrade is the only company that I am aware of that used Swinden keyholes. Maybe some one else has heard of others.
Nick

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:22 am

To cut the rocker pin I usually slip a thin blade of an old kitchen knife between the liner & the spring. I have also used a utility razor blade. I set the back of the kitchen blade between the jaws of a vice and tap on the end of the slipjoint until I cut the rocker pin. Then it comes right apart.

Hope that helps. If not I can take a pic in a day or two and post it.

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:53 pm

I usually use a dremel with a round cutter, run it on a high speed and carefully eat away the head. Sometimes if you do nick the delrin it can be disguised. I know schrade, imperial, some ulster and I think some cammilus knives (not positive on that last one) were keyhole. Now the old schrades, the cut co.'s and very early waldens, some of them were pinned traditionally. If a later one shows a pin, it has most likely been worked on at some point in time. Good luck.