Cherry handle scales

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:19 am

Has anyone used cherry for scales? I have access to some. I'm a bit lacking in knowledge when it comes to wood.
Thanks,
Nick

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:39 am

I just used Brazilian Cherry on a knife I posted here the other day. It was a piece of hardwood flooring. I made it as a user and it is definitely getting some dings in my pocket with my keys & change. If you want to avoid that it might be best to have the wood stabilized first.

Here is a pic so you don't have to search for it. For those of you who have already seen it, sorry for the second post.

Dale

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:29 am

Thanks Dale. That knife looks great. Can anyone recommend a particular method of stabilizing the wood. I know minwax has a wood hardener.

Nick

justold52 · Post by **justold52** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:29 am

orvet; You fell free to show your knives more than one time.
A lot of us old men see ladies for the first time, many times.

I use to think it was funny when my father-in-law watched his VCR moves
and he would say this is the FIRST time I saw this move.

He is 96 old now but blind.

agteacher2 · Post by **agteacher2** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:29 pm

Good Morning Folks,

I have used Gareosol spray on softer wood with pretty good sucess. It is a non fired ceramics glaze. It absorbes readily into wood and after repeated applications makes the surface appear just like stabilized wood. I use it on shaped handles. I will spray the wood wait a few seconds till the handle looks like it has soaked up the liquid and reapply. I have gotten spalted wood to take up to 20 coats. Once you a convinced you have saturated it as much as you need, let every thing dry over night and buff. When you buff it you will swear at first that you've ruined it, but keep going once the excess of the outside is buffed away you will be left with a hard shiny plastic like surface.
Hope this helps,
Jeff

http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages ... Items5.htm

ps. If you google this product it can be found much cheaper.

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:34 pm

I've used cherry burl before, slightly soft, about like walnut, haven't tried hardening any, plan to try some wood hardener from minxwax or similar.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:29 pm

There is a guy who does stabilization, I can't remember his name. There is a product you can use also to penetrate the wood and stabilize it. It does take some time to use.

I will have to go to Knife Network forum & look at some old threads there and see if I can find out who does stabilization. There is an outstanding thread there on glue & which works best. The results surprised me.

There is one method I have used with some success to harden wood, (probably should have used it on the Brazilian Cherry) and it is pretty easy.
Take one part Boiled Linseed oil, one part Polyurethane finish, and one part Turpentine. Just mix them together & apply to the wood with a clean rag.

The Linseed oil hardens the wood (I am told) and the Turpentine is the vehicle that allows it to penetrate. This finish is one of the only finishes I have successfully used on Cocobolo. Cocobolo has so much oil in it that most finishes won't dry when applied to it.

Let me know how it works,
Dale

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:52 pm

Mike Ludemann, who owns WSSI (Wood Stabilizing Specialists International) does a good job of wood stabilization. I just sent some wood to him, including some nice buckeye burl. The buckeye may be costly to process, but it came from an old family ranch that is no longer in the family hands, so it's worth it. Nice guy to talk to also.
Thanks for the heads up Jeff, you just know I will have to try Gareosol

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I was on knife network just last night and I think Gorilla Glue had the highest metal to wood contact strength.

I know that there are other glues that guys will be interested in as Gorilla glue is quite messy and I only have been eperimenting with it on new knives. I can see it's too messy for repair work, at least for me.

Here is a link to the WSSI website.

http://www.stabilizedwood.com

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:29 am

That glue testing thread was something wasn't it? If anyone is interested here is the link: http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=27463

HuKK,
You are right Gorilla Glue did fare the best in the test for gluing wood to metal, however the test was made before Sumo Glue hit the market. I have been using Sumo Glue for most of the last year, with excellent results. It foams much less than Gorilla Glue does. I would say you get about 1/3 of the foam that you get with Gorilla.

On a couple occasions when I had to remove a handle after I had it glued on, the wood split & I had to sand the wood off the tang. I rarely use Gorilla any more, because the Sumo seems to be stronger & is much less messy.

Dale

muskrat man · Post by **muskrat man** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:42 am

I love adhesives, I've never tried the gorrila or sumo glue, I'll have to pick some up. I've used devcon epoxies in both 5 min and 2 ton, and loctite brand super glue and super glue gel. I don't like the gel, the liquid seeps good both into cracks and places where you don't want it to be

. I usually use it or 5 min epozy for pinned scales, believe it or not I've had better luck with the super glue holding than the 5 min epoxy! I use the 2 ton where I need plenty of time to work the piece, like pinned fixed blade scales, and pinless pocket knife scales, I also like it's strength and resistance to water and such. The super glue gets the most use though, works real good for restoration IMO, the gel works better in certain situations too.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:18 am

orvet wrote:That glue testing thread was something wasn't it? If anyone is interested here is the link: http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=27463

HuKK,
You are right Gorilla Glue did fare the best in the test for gluing wood to metal, however the test was made before Sumo Glue hit the market. I have been using Sumo Glue for most of the last year, with excellent results. It foams much less than Gorilla Glue does. I would say you get about 1/3 of the foam that you get with Gorilla.

On a couple occasions when I had to remove a handle after I had it glued on, the wood split & I had to sand the wood off the tang. I rarely use Gorilla any more, because the Sumo seems to be stronger & is much less messy.

Dale

That is an excellent thread! I will have to try the Sumo Glue, I have only used the Gorilla Glue on fixed blades, to messy for folders for me on that one. Not a good glue for hidden tangs, to much expansion.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:08 am

Hukk wrote: Not a good glue for hidden tangs, to much expansion.

Quite true, I think someone pointed that out in the thread. I was watching the thread as the guys were doing the testing, it was amazing. 18 pages of posts on glues!

I highly recommend that thread for anyone who makes or repairs knives, or anyone who uses glue for any purpose. Great stuff!

Dale

nmikash · Post by **nmikash** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:46 am

All this talk of glue is coming at a good time. I have just started handles for my first restoration job. I went with the cherry. They were attached to the liners with SuperGlue brand 5 min epoxy. I'll let you know how that works out.

Back to the wood stabilizing. What do you guys think of melting some S.C. Johnson paste wax to liquid and then submersing the scales in it for a while?

Nick

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:16 am

Nick,
I think the key is penetration of the wood. I have heard that in some of the commercial stabilization processes they actually put the wood in a chamber with whatever material they use to stabilize it and apply vacuum to help the material penetrate the wood.

When I have used commercially stabilized wood I have noticed that the material has penetrated all the way through the wood.

That being said; I am not sure that the wax would penetrate like that & if it does, will the wax be harder than the wood? I think they use some type of resin, perhaps polyurethane.

That is my $.02,
Dale

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:33 am

orvet wrote:Nick,
I think the key is penetration of the wood. I have heard that in some of the commercial stabilization processes they actually put the wood in a chamber with whatever material they use to stabilize it and apply vacuum to help the material penetrate the wood.

When I have used commercially stabilized wood I have noticed that the material has penetrated all the way through the wood.

That being said; I am not sure that the wax would penetrate like that & if it does, will the wax be harder than the wood? I think they use some type of resin, perhaps polyurethane.

That is my $.02,
Dale

I think you are correct about the vacuum and penetration; I used to work in the semiconductor industry and have forgotten a lot. But I think polyurethane would be a little too complex under heat and vacuum. My thought would be a monomer or an acrylic process.

I have heard of guys using a cheap vacuum pump for refrigeration (about $17.00) and use acryloid B-72 and 1 other chemical that escapes me at the present. They drill a small hole into the wood block and screw in a fitting directly in the wood to attach a line to the vacuum pump. They then fill a jar with acryloid B-72 and the other chemical, place the wood in it, screw on a lid and turn on the pump for 15-30 minutes and they are done.
The vacuum pumps pull about 25 inches of mercury so I do not know that a mason jar would work. I would definitely put it in a 1 gallon can around the mason jar if I tried it. I would also put the can/jar about 1 1/2 feet off the floor and the pump about 5 feet from the floor. When I attach the line I would make sure that it goes from the can down to the floor and then up to the pump, make sure there is a belly in the line so chemicals do not get sucked into the pump. I would have to watch the whole process to make sure chemicals do not go to the pump. It would get expensive to use a new pump every time.