USA vs CHINA Schrade 70t Cutting Test to Destruction

Schrade Cutlery Company was founded in 1904 by George Schrade, and his brothers Jacob and William Schrade. In 1946 Imperial Knife Associated Companies, (IKAC; an association of Ulster Knife Co and Imperial Knife Co) purchased controlling interest in Schrade Cut Co and changed the name to Schrade Walden Cutlery. In 1973 the name was changed to Schrade Cutlery. In 2004 Schrade closed due to bankruptcy.

This forum is dedicated to the knives that are the legacy of this company. This forum is not the place to discuss the replica knives currently being imported using the Schrade name.
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Timstools
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USA vs CHINA Schrade 70t Cutting Test to Destruction

Post by Timstools »

Hi, I didt know about this forum and I am new (registered today) I am a serious collector of USA Schrades, these tests were conducted a few weeks ago.

USA Stainless steel 70T Old Timer verses the China Stainless 70T Old Timer
At first I had trouble but getting either one blunt but as expected evetually the China Schrade was shown to be an inferior product. Both knives were new except for USA Schrade which was still new and had most of its factory edge but was slightly blunt towards the tip were it was chipped.

The real difference came when I used the hemp rope (although it was really hurting my arm before hurting the knives). After I had made 89 cuts of the hemp rope on each knife (178 total) both knives were still cutting but it was taking 80 strokes of the China 70t to cut through the rope and 50 strokes for the USA 70t
Although I was very satisfied that the USA blade was much superior I still wanted a more conclusive result (I wanted one to stop cutting)

To speed things up I used a peice of pine wood and made 60 slices of the pine wood using the same technique on each knife. (it must be noted that the USA Schrade easily removed more than twice the amount of timber while doing this)

This had the desired effect after this the China Schrade was then only able to make a few more cuts of hemp rope before it would not cut it without extreme force. The USA Schrade was able to continue cutting and I was able to make another 62 cuts of the hemp until it was just as difficult as the China Schrade to use. I swapped back and forth between the knives a few times with the final cuts to make sure the comparison was valid.

Prior to using the Hemp rope I also tried red Nylon rope, cardboard and Bailing twine but both knives continued to cut quite well. It was not until I used the Hemp rope that a real difference became evident.

In summary: The hemp cutting test showed the USA Schrade to be approximatley 50 to 60% percent superior in edge cutting retention and durability over the China model.
Up until point of the China 70t becoming unusable I had to do a up to 50 percent more work with it (80 strokes to Schrades 50) to make it cut. This must also be factored into the the final result.

Conclusion, re: cutting test.
My results are approximates based on the best info I was able to gather from test. I cannot factor in all the variables to give a more precise result but this is in part made unessesary because for me the test showed that the USA Schrade led by a considerable margin and was vastly superior in cutting performance. Any slight variable in the results would not swing the result in favour of the China Schrade.


Some extra Important notes re: cutting. The USA was in new but battered condition with a chipped point which accounts for 4% percent less cutting surface and although both blades were very sharp the USA Schrade was slightly less sharp than the China Schrade at the commencement of the test. Schrade USA uses 400+ HC steel. The China Schrade uses 440 stainless normally considered superior to the other types mentioned. Superior manufacturing technique and critical final heat treatment of the steel may account for the difference in the findings here.

Blade Side Break test.
Both were loaded up with weights supported off handles until the blades broke. The China Schrade suffered worse for this and lost its centre brass sheild. The Photos show the delrin forward part of the hande seperating on the China knife and also the brass moving away from supporting the blade. This occured while under strain just prior to shearing the blade from its housing. On examination (as in photo) the sheared part of the blade shows that the USA knife is wider in this critical area.

Lockback Failure Break test

OK the second last photo added below shows the Lockback break failure test. Again the USA Schrade 70T showed itself to be superior with a 10 percent lead in strength over the China model. The weights were added gradually at small increments over the test. More significantly the way the two knives failed was impressive the USA Schrade broke progressively almost lowering the weight to the ground so that most of the weights were still sitting in a stack when they reached the ground. The China Schrade when subjected to the same test suffered catastrophic failure before reaching the target weight and the backing peice broke away and flung upward as the weights fell.

In summary.
They were both badly damaged but the way in which the China Schrade broke meant that is was unusable. The USA Schrade on the other hand amazed me by still being able to perform a wood cutting function even after subjecting it to this severe the test to failure. An outstanding example of quality and build. It was my intention to destroy all four knives during the test, one of the 4 survived.

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SHEARED OFF AREAS MARKED IN BETWEEN RED ARROWS
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LOCKBACK FAILURE BREAK TEST
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THE WINNER
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Post by useem »

WOW :shock: very nice. welcome to the best place on the net ::tu::
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Post by lt632ret »

That certainly was an interesting post it shows ( at least to me ) a real desire to actually see which item was indeed the best. I personally enjoyed it and thankyou for your post. As anyone who knows me will tell you my opinion is that even if the product was significantly better than the USA version I still would not want it. I realize that you are from down under ( by the way there is a deep spot in my heart for your country I have always felt as thought our nations were brothers) none the less as an American and whether it is right or wrong I feel the communist chinese and there way of life and political ideologys wish only elimininate the doctrines and beliefs of all democracys expecially that of the USA.

It has become imposible not to, in some cases be forced to buy some Chinese goods often as in electronics you might not even realize that in part or total the item is communist Chinese made.

This being said in the case of Knives especially knives originally made in the USA by american companies. I reserve the right to never owning them . Americans over the centurys have shown that they will buy a product from an enemy that may well have killed a relative or in fact may be hostile to our way of life, (mitsubishi grade zeros bombed pearl harbor now americans honor them by buying cars from the same company using the same name ), if they through ( whatever production means, slave or child labor unsafe human conditions polluting the environment what ever ) as long as they can buy it at a lower price. In the case of Schrade knives 100 years as an American name and icon , I simply will not support these products even if they are free. Because I do not want the next generation forgetting its american heritage and the part these American Companies played in this history. Twenty years from now I do not want people saying "oh yes I just nought a nice new Schrade they have always been a great Chinese product." The ones being stuck in the Japanese in WWII and the ones used in Viet Nam were not Chinese or Japanese . However some of the blood on them was. To forget that, means that those generations both at home and in harms way made those sacrifices in vain .

Frankly these are but my opinions we as americans do a lot of things that are bad for our health . We smoke, drink , over eat, and lots of other things including buying products from those who have sworn our demise. Keeping this in mind I would suggest that the Chinese products will continue to improve just as long as there is still some american competition and they will continue to sell these items at a lower price just as long as there is still some american competition . However please do not delude yourself that when the final competion has been destroyed by any means, as in what transpired with Schrade. Then the Chinese products quality will decline , there prices will go up and they will not give a damn. Just as, if we ever could no longer defend ourselves they would decend upon us as a plague without ony of the mercy or tolerence we had always shown them in victory. LT
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Post by jonet143 »

amen, LT.
johnnie f 1949

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Post by Timstools »

anyone who knows me will tell you my opinion is that even if the product was significantly better than the USA version I still would not want it
LT thanks I know there is more involved than just the knife quality. hypothetically If China Schrades were better than the USA Schrades then instead of buying the 100 or so USA Schrades that Ive purchased over the last 2 years I may have only purchased just one China made knife as a user as many people do and none of the USA Schrades I now have.

For those deliberatelty ignorant of the facts they would probably do the same and just pay the cheapest price and get a China knife. But then these people are not collectors like a lot of us and it is these people the average consumer that really effect the market.

If the China knife had always been better then probably there would never have even been a forum like this which appears to be built on quality knives with a proud history & past. Subsequently there would be no platform and perhaps limited opportunies to raise questions over the ethics of the buying the China product which is the much more important issue you have highlighted so well.

Thankyou and Regards
Tim
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Post by orvet »

Well said LT ::tu::

Those of us who spent some time in Vietnam & the surrounds, dodged too much Chinese steel to start paying for it now, IMO.

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Post by Classic Case »

::welcome:: to the site. ::tu:: im sure you'll enjoy it here.Also. thanks for the post/testing, its cool to see how things work out in a one on one faceoff. ::tu::
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Post by Timstools »

Thanks for your kind welcome, much appreciated, yes, it was enjoyable to do test and I was very satisfied with what I found, I look at my Schrade collection now with more respect knowing that they are not just nice show peices but they can stand up well to this type of scrutiny.

I really did it to completely satisy myself and it did take much longer to record all the results so that others could also appreciate them also. But I would really encourage anyone who has any doupts at all to just try the two knives and start cutting some thick hemp rope, Im confident that they will soon discover there is a real and practical difference between the two.

Schrade USA does use 400+ HC steel, the HC means it has a High Carbon content (a little like the early non stainless carbon steel blades) but it is also stainless steel. Hi Carbon steel is an excellent choice as it naturally lends itself to the heat treatment process used to made a resilient edge. I would not be surprised if it was also better than many of its closer USA made peers. They really are a fine quality product.
Kind Regards Tim
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Post by MITCH RAPP »

8) Tim; Outstanding post and Cheers Mate! ::welcome:: to our little

Forum! ::tu::
MITCH

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Post by W5RWU »

G'day Tim welcome !!
Randy
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Post by orvet »

Hey Tim,
I forgot to say ::welcome:: to you in my earlier post.

"Welcome!"
BTW, The test was great! 8)

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Post by Timstools »

Thanks all, I guess I could post a few picks of my knife collection but some of you may have seem the already. Would anyone like to show me some of their own knives first??
Regards Tim
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Post by El Lobo »

Tim,

Please feel free to post some pictures of your collection. That is one of the reasons we all come here to visit.
::nod:: ::tu::

You may want to start a new thread, so everyone doesn't "pile on" your test thread. Just a thought.

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Post by lt632ret »

Since Tim has taken his time and effort to show the various aspects of these knives I thought that . Some of you might enjoy a couple of the pieces that Schrade used for testing there products before marketing them. They tested knives not only of there own but of the competition as well. Here are some pics of two knives from a box from Schrade R&D research and development. One is an SG7 which I was a bit curious about until I turned it over the tape is the same original I found on it. The other is a Buck knife similar to an LB7 which obviously had been cut to observe the action. These are examples I just grabbed since they were handy. However these knives and this study I have always found interesting I hope you do as well LT. PS Sorry if they are out of order.
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Post by orvet »

I like the the one that says "opened & closed 26,000 times."
I bet the chinese company doesn't do that.
These knives show me that Schrade cared enough about their products that they were willing to test them & compare them to the competition.

Thanks for sharing the pics.
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Post by Timstools »

I like the the one that says "opened & closed 26,000 times"
I dont think I will be opening and closing my knives 26.000 times to see what happens and record test results??? Do you have some band aids for me if I do decide to try it?? :)
Thanks for those picks, Ive never seen anything like that, really appreciate the post.
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Post by lt632ret »

Since there seems to be an interest in these test items here is a display I set up of some items which again were in a box destined for the garbage. They are 4 multi tools a leatherman a gerber and two Schrade tools. Apparently Schrade was concerned with how the salt water corrosion factor would affect this items. It would seem logical that some people would use these on boats for fishing and maintenance. It also would seem that they received reports from these tests. I have attached pics of the tools and the reports sent back to Schrade with the findings. This may give some rare insight into some of the procedures for quality control and improvment that Schrade used. LT
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Post by orvet »

Great stuff LT! ::tu:: ::tu::

It is nice to see the behind the scenes testing that went on at Schrade, in an effort to improve their products & out shine the competition.

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