Misleading terminology

[OLDE CUTLER]

Some of you may have seen this one on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/13-CASE-XX-USA ... SwDyxbhzub

I sent the following question to him to try to clarify things.
I have a couple of questions about the Case knife listing. I was wondering why you are referring to a knife that was made in 2013 as "Old Vintage"? And you describe the knife as a trapper lockback (which it is) and as a folding hunter (which it isn't). The folding hunter is a much larger knife, 5 1/4" in length closed and in the Case line is the 65 pattern number.

He sent me this reply to "answer" my questions.
hi. thanks for the interest. the knife is exactly as pictured and described. the title has a certain number of spaces for me to use to make sure potential buyers see it so it has words that describe it or that might be used to search for it. it is old and it is vintage style. as for size and model, there is a detailed description in the auction with both. thanks. doug

[just bob]

Doodle Froodle is the master of the ebay auction title. You are allotted so many spaces and he uses them all with words that will come up in seller's searches. He sells many stockman, whittler, canoe, vintage knives. Look at his other listings. He is doing this so his knives come up at the top of buyers searching for knives. Once you open the auction he does have accurate descriptions - he is just trying to steer you to his listings. I think he is honest to a fault and has an excellent reputation - look at his feedback. Another thing I have discovered recently is that not only is he a mega knife seller he also buys many of the knives he sells right on ebay. He is a master sniper. If you get outbid with 2 seconds to go click on the bids link and look at the winning bidder. If it starts with a D and ends with an E and is over 60K chances are he has won the auction. Nothing wrong with any of this. He is an ebay wizard.

[OLDE CUTLER]

Doodle Froodle is the master of the ebay auction title. You are allotted so many spaces and he uses them all with words that will come up in seller's searches. He sells many stockman, whittler, canoe, vintage knives. Look at his other listings. He is doing this so his knives come up at the top of buyers searching for knives. Once you open the auction he does have accurate descriptions - he is just trying to steer you to his listings. I think he is honest to a fault and has an excellent reputation - look at his feedback. Another thing I have discovered recently is that not only is he a mega knife seller he also buys many of the knives he sells right on ebay. He is a master sniper. If you get outbid with 2 seconds to go click on the bids link and look at the winning bidder. If it starts with a D and ends with an E and is over 60K chances are he has won the auction. Nothing wrong with any of this. He is an ebay wizard.

So you think it is OK to describe something made within the last 5 years as "old vintage" and the same knife as a lockblade trapper and a folding hunter? And as others have pointed out on AAPK, the feedback rating on ebay is almost meaningless. If you regularly read the posts on this thread about the various scammers and fake merchants, they also have high feedback ratings.

[tongueriver]

Part of what you describe- the mention of specifically incorrect searchwords in the title- is illegal in Ebay's rules. Some of the sellers do it all the time. I called one "gentleman" on it, (He had a Schrade, Case, Marbles, Robeson, Remington pocket knife for sale) and he very pointedly suggested that I do something to myself that would ordinarily be quite difficult, if not desirable. I have reported several of these incidents to ebay and they do nothing. Nothing at all, and they will never do anything about any of it. Doodlefroodle might be a great seller (I have bought from him) but I think the practice is uncool.

[just bob]

The same type of trickery occurs when a seller creates a title like - Schrade Folding Hunter Knife - No Case. This is done so that this item will come up for anyone searching for a Case knife. Is that fraud or marketing? I'll agree some sellers cross a line that I wouldn't, but they are only trying to draw bidders to their auctions and not sell bogus or misrepresented goods.

[hardman]

I am not a fan of misleading terminology like that. It is very pervasive throughout eBay.

But, I am also not a fan of terms like "Genuine India Stag Bone (TM)" which is widely used and abused by a certain USA knife manufacturer.

[kootenay joe]

I have bought a few knives from Doug Doodle-Froodle. Honest guy & straight forward. There is a lot of time & effort in having many listings every week and after ebay & PP fees the profit can be small. It is not an easy way to make a living so i think it is acceptable to 'tweak' the listing title to get more people looking at your listings as long as the description honestly portrays the knife.
It's o.k. to cut the sellers a little slack. It is in our interest that they make a profit and so stay in business and continue to show us knives.
kj

[just bob]

I think ebay encourages these practices;

https://crazylister.com/blog/high-conve ... -for-ebay/

[jerryd6818]

I believe that's referred to as keyword spamming and is against eBay rules BUT as has been said, nothing is ever done about it.

[Gunsil]

Doug has always been honest in knives I have purchased from him. I think it is wrong to sully his reputation because he uses a lot of words to attract buyers in his auctions. occasionally he makes a mistake in his ads, he doesn't know everything about every knife and I doubt anybody here does. I have e-mailed him sometimes when he has a mistaken ID and he listens and corrects his ads which few sellers do.

[Dinadan]

I believe that's referred to as keyword spamming and is against eBay rules BUT as has been said, nothing is ever done about it.

That is what I have heard it called, too. Over on a gun auction site that I sometimes look at there are many listings that read like; Ruger revolver, not Colt, not Smith and Wesson, not Glock, not Walther, not Luger, not Browning ... you get the idea. It really degrades the value of the search option.

On the broader internet it is my understanding that Google does try to prevent that kind of thing by downgrading sites that used keyword spamming in the search results. Back in the early days of the internet, folks would use a font with the same color as the background of the page so that the spam words would be invisible to humans but a search engine would "see" hundreds of phrases like "naked girls" or "copper fittings" in order to bring as many viewers to the site as possible. I think that Google pretty well killed that kind of thing with their algorithms. But with a site like Ebay it just depends on what the webmaster wants, or can figure out how to do.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

If you really want to see some crazy titles, go look at the knives on DHgate. For example, how about:
"Special Offer !10 Styles Microtech Troodon Scarab S/E Best Automatic Knife Marfione Custom Troodon knives Halo v A07 Gift Knife MT Knives"

Or, maybe you would be interested in:
"New hight!BK112 BK110 ewoutdoor automatic folding spring knife steel copper + wood handle high quality pocket knife Switch blade Brand 112"

(The first one is an OTF Microtech clone and the second one is a Buck 110 auto clone)

[Mumbleypeg]

I seldom pay much attention to the headline descriptions on eBay. My search criteria brings up pictures of knives (and occassionally other stuff). Then I scan those pictures for items of interest, quickly cull out those I'm not interested in. I never click on the auction descriptions of those culls anyway. Most of those I select are just as quickly culled out after looking at the enlarged pictures. "Read the knife, not the words." Only after I decide the pictured knife is of interest do I bother with reading any words.

As for DoodleFroodle, I have watched a lot of his auctions, and bought a few knives from him. I've found him easy to deal with and accurate in his detail descriptions. If I have a question I ask, and usually receive a prompt response.

His headline terminology is of little consequence to me. I'd much rather deal with him than those many sellers who consistently peddle counterfeits, or offer some "cock-and-bull" story. But I guess maybe I'm missing some entertainment!

Ken

[bighomer]

I don't know if it's kosher or not , but it's widespread and brings up some interesting things. I was looking at pocket knives last night and all of a sudden refrigerator magnets came up and they were not going to be allowed on my refrigerator l can tell you that, whew!! ole men ain't got no business looking at that.

[gsmith7158]

I don't know if it's kosher or not , but it's widespread and brings up some interesting things. I was looking at pocket knives last night and all of a sudden refrigerator magnets came up and they were not going to be allowed on my refrigerator l can tell you that, whew!! ole men ain't got no business looking at that.

Biggie H Google keeps suggesting that I should look at some pink lace nightie. I don't know how they think I'm going to get into one of those.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

I am very glad to read all of this. I sell on eBay and buy quite a bit there also. I have been confounded by why Doodlefroodle comes up at the head of all my searches. Now I know why. I thought maybe he had paid extra to be placed ahead of everyone else. Google makes a fortune doing that w/ search results. I just figured there was some way to pay eBay to place your product ahead of everyone else’s.
When I first started selling on eBay I noticed that my knives weren’t showing up in the “knife auction” that I searched. Even though I worded my items accurately and made my descriptions just like others that sell a lot more knives than I do. It wasn’t until I put the word “knife” at the first of the desciption that they showed up when and where they should have. I can’t figure out eBay’s game here. They don’t give priority to a small seller. I see that when someone is selling a knife that hasn’t sold much in the past. So many auctions end w/ no bids. I just have to wonder what the “secret” is to getting your items in the que?
Sounds like this seller has figured it out, but I don’t like misleading descriptions either and I am put off by that too.
Mark

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

I have my ebay search settings configured to always sort by "Ending Soon". I find the "Best Match" sorting useless.

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[OLDE CUTLER]

It was not my intention to sully anyone's reputation. In fact I had no idea how this even worked on ebay, the word play and search order and so on. I have only ever bought 2 knives on ebay, (never sold anything) both new and I read all the info the seller provided and still sent messages with questions. Call me OLD SCHOOL, but the way I was looking at this is that this is my first contact with some one who I may be buying a product from, and with this first contact comes a first impression. If I see the picture of the knife and read that it is "Old Vintage 2013, lockblade trapper folding hunter", that has not made a favorable impression on me to buy from the seller. Like I said, call me old school because on a used knife especially I still like to handle it, snap it and look it over from one end to the other, usually even with a loup. Some of you have bought from this seller, and that is totally different buying from someone you know. But for me who has not bought from the seller before, that first line says a lot because it looks questionable. I am glad that those of you who sell on ebay and know how this works have disclosed it to those of us that do not.

[just bob]

This is the specific ebay policy on the subject. If you click around on the links you can gain a lot of information here. BTW a title like - Schrade - Walden Folding Hunter Knife - No Case - is a clear viloaltion of the policy. I don't see how they could ever police all of this that is going on? Seems like they have bigger fish to catch.


https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/list ... 43#keyword

[winst]

I have been selling on ebay for 15 yrs and have come to conclude that the ebayer with the greatest volume sells gets some breaks that other small sellers don't. For example...I know before, anyone jumps to conclusions, that some item are restricted from sell on ebay. I had a nice 1940's Schrade switchblade for sale and it was removed from the auction. I relisted it and with in 10 mins got a call from ebay saying I could not sell switchblades on ebay. I ask him why my knife was removed yet other switchblades we left to complete the auction? He said if I knew of restricted item selling that I should report them. I informed him that I had made it a point to report 6 switchblades and some had completed the auction cycle and none were removed. I made a statement that I thought ebay was showing favors to big time sellers and bringing more restrictions down on us small guys. He then made a statement to me that ended the conversation...."I OWN EBAY AND WILL DO AS I PLEASE" ..end of conversation. I can list a switchblade and within minutes it is removed.

[Mumbleypeg]

I’m a somewhat selective collector, but I like to “watch” auctions for items just to see what they sell for. In the past I have set my search criteria to some very limited and specific keywords. For example “Case 5383”. The results were that only when that item was listed would I receive a notification, or see it in my favorites list.

A while back, something changed. Now every day in my favorites list for 5383 it tells me there are 99+ new listings. When I check it there are no Case 5383 knives, or maybe sometimes there are one or two of them. But there are hundreds of knives by Case and other makers, none of them remotely related to 5383 pattern. Then I get to the “results matching fewer keywords” section! I can’t even figure out how the first section matched any of my search criteria. The other thing that irritates me is when I add an item to my “watch” list, that item appears first in every other search, regardless what I search for!

I sent a message to eBay complaining about it. No response. About a month ago eBay sent me a survey questionnaire, and in my response I complained about the change. In the “can we contact you” I told them yes and how to do so. No response. This change along with worthless AI-generated descriptions has turned me off from eBay shopping. I don’t have time for their crap.

Ken

[tnorton]

I guess I'll put my two cents in: First of all I buy knives and collect some and resell some. I have bought from Doug and he from me but I don't know him personally. I have never had any problems with his knives being misrepresented or shipping etc. listed below is basically how I list my items and why.

KNIVES - VINTAGE '52-'75 SCHRADE WALDEN NY USA 234K POCKET KNIFE (IF I HAVE ROOM HANDLE MATERIAL WITH BOX ETC)

OR IF SELLING MORE THAN 1 :

KNIFE LOT - 2 VINTAGE PRE '04 SCHRADE USA POCKET KNIVES - 34OT & 8OT ( IF ROOM 3 BLADE - OLD TIMER ETC)
I WOULD NOT USE ANY WORDING LIKE "NO CASE" - BUT IF SELLING MIXED LOT GET ALL GOOD BRANDS IN.
FUNNY I SEEM TO GET MORE VIEWS WHEN USING "POCKET KNIFE" INSTEAD OF "POCKETKNIFE"

** I do most my research on dates size and handle material blade etc from this site - I list complete description with flaws and good points with good pictures
I am not trying to deceive anyone only get looks at the knife with their own searches - my experience says most searchers use : knife knives vintage pocket and BRAND NAME in their searches . It is hard to resell knives and make any profit - for some reason it is really tough presently - Sellers get 80 spaces to get buyers to look at the merchandise on their site - Clint