Another Re-handle in "Colbs Bone"

[Robo]

Another offering from Sports Colbs on the Bay, already racking up bids. Looks to be the same bone used on the Tested XX fishing knife --2095 posted here a couple days back. Since this "Counterfeit Watch" is for new comers as well as the more experienced collector it should be reiterated that neither this knife nor the Fishing knife just mentioned are counterfiet in the strict sense of the word. No fake "Case Stamp" cold stamped on to a tang that's had another (often newer, less expensive) brand's name removed, etc. This is for all sakes and purposes the real Mckoy: A Case Tested XX Era --1098 pattern "Tickler," "Toothpick" one of the greatest examples of knife art and craft of the early 20th Century. Like the fishing knife, this one may have had handles that out- gassed at some point in time replaced with these non-original handles. If Sports Colbs had merely mentioned this I wouldn't be posting the knife here. But because he's saying the bone is original to the knife--a warning must be issued. Enclosed: a couple pics of the knife and a link to Ebay and for comparrison one of my 098s with factory green bone covers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202684735980?ul_noapp=true

[jlw257]

The pictures aren’t that good. The handles looks like Rogers Bone which would be correct.

[knifeaholic]

I agree with Robo - rehandled in modern "Rogers" bone. Shield appears to be too small. The basic knife was a 61098, appears to be real but cleaned. Case never made the single blade 098 in yellow, so must have been green bone handles originally.

[kootenay joe]

Because a few of these old Case folders being re-handled are 'popping up' is it possible they have come from a collection and collector thinks them to be all original ?
i.e. could the re-handling have been done 50 or more years ago ?
It is only since the internet that most of us have come to learn a bit about how to spot a fake/re-work. Before the internet only a few true experts could spot a well done fake. So if Case knives were being faked over 50 years ago they would have been easier to sell to collectors, and there could be many examples 'out there'.
kj

[gsmith7158]

Because a few of these old Case folders being re-handled are 'popping up' is it possible they have come from a collection and collector thinks them to be all original ?
i.e. could the re-handling have been done 50 or more years ago ?
It is only since the internet that most of us have come to learn a bit about how to spot a fake/re-work. Before the internet only a few true experts could spot a well done fake. So if Case knives were being faked over 50 years ago they would have been easier to sell to collectors, and there could be many examples 'out there'.
kj

Roland ,I think you have hit the nail on the head. Bill may have bought a collection from a collector who was also a tinkerer. I've noticed several in his current bunch that appear to be rehandled.

[kootenay joe]

The collector might have obtained them from the "tinkerer" believing they are all original.
My question really is: how far back does altering knives to make them more appealing to collectors go ? Is it fairly recent like about last 40 years ? or does it go back much further ?
We here are 'extremist' collectors. I have met people who are happy with an old Case knife that has been buffed and newer Case handles put on it. To them "hey it's all Case, so i'm happy with it". I say "Case" but it could be any brand.
Not all collectors want never buffed, all original, all work done in factory.
If a person knows it is not all original it should be stated in a for sale listing. For these Case knives you really have to know this brand well to know what handles were never used in factory production.
kj

[Robo]

We here are 'extremist' collectors.
kj

I hear you KJ, Sport Colbs looks like an honest enough broker for the most part, and frankly I'm salivating over a couple items he's got up on The Bay as we speak. But It's like you said, If you know there's been an alteration, state it plainly. Counterfeit Watche's mission is to draw attention to those sellers who for whatever reason aren't stating things plainly. Both those knives are racking up bids. Who knows, maybe some of those guys are the non-extremists who could care less about the rehandles as long as they are properly done. all I know for sure is I did my job. The rest is up to the seller.

I pour over knives over on Worth point for hours and one thing I've learned is that 7 out of 10 sellers are lost in the woods after they announce that the knife is "Rare". Worse are the ones who think they know what they're talking about, but don't, and say it anyway--And keep on espousing incorrect historical info even after you've politeIy corrected them. But then there's the rare seller who really has done his homework and who imparts some tid-bit of historical information I've been looking for and all is well with the world again...Good to hear your thoughts--thanks--Robo

[kootenay joe]

I would like to know how far back 'faking' of collectible USA folding knives goes. By "faking" i mean any alteration done with the intent of getting more money from buyers, and not disclosing the work done ?
It obviously happens now, 'faked' knives are fairly common. But were they common in say 1970's ? or 1950's ? etc.
kj

[knifeaholic]

I would like to know how far back 'faking' of collectible USA folding knives goes. By "faking" i mean any alteration done with the intent of getting more money from buyers, and not disclosing the work done ?
It obviously happens now, 'faked' knives are fairly common. But were they common in say 1970's ? or 1950's ? etc.
kj

By the 1970's...VERY common. So most likely began in the late 60's.

Back then, there were no bone suppliers like Culpepper, so most fakes that involved new handles had stag or pearl handles.

[Doc B]

Sometimes I wonder... in times gone past, I'm guessing that many people may have repaired their broken tools. A knife, being something everyone carried was probably repaired more often...than these days. Fast-forward to people acquiring these knives. I know that when significant money gets involved...the counterfeit faction is going to be there...but I'm wondering how many non-originals were repairs, just to get more use, out of a very useful tool.

[Mumbleypeg]

No doubt there are a lot of repaired old EDC knives around. Back before the late 1960s folks mainly bought knives to use as tools. If they broke they either fixed them, stuck them in a drawer or tool box for rough use or perhaps thinking they would fix them later. Some threw them in the trash, or gave them to a kid.

Then the knife collecting hobby began to catch hold, and the crooks soon followed. But the difference in most cases is the crooks were soon taking recently made production knives in mint condition, and turning them into fake old mint knives. An early 1970s dotted Case was re-stamped to be represented as a Tested era knife, and so on. And uneducated naive collectors (like me) fell victim to those unscrupulous dealers. Many times the dealers themselves were unsuspecting pawns, buying tainted goods and innocently passing them on. I bought a few of those from both types - folks who knew what they were selling and some that probably didn’t know much if any more than me.

My biggest saving grace was being poor. I could not afford many old mint condition knives. So mostly I bought recent production NOS knives that were still in retail store inventory in the late 1960’s and early 1970s. Which are now honest old mint knives.

Ken

[kootenay joe]

Steve, thank you for giving an approximate date when faking began in earnest. The 50 year old ones have now had time enough to develop an even patina which can make them harder to spot for many of us non experts.
kj