Bent Bail..

[ringergary]

Hi all, I have a Camillus Scout knife in good nick but it has a bent bail.
Looks like it got jammed on something while hanging from a belt.
How do I remove the bail and straighten it.
I don't know if the pin goes all the way through and serves as the end pin or not, I assume
it does, but on second thoughts it can't, can it??

Any help welcome.


cheers Gary.

[knives-are-quiet]

Post a picture of the knife Gary.
Some are easily removed just by spreading them apart and removed from the pre-drilled holes.
Some are peined using the end pin.
You may be able to reshape the bail while still attached to the knife.
It would depend on what condition it is in.

J W

[ringergary]

You can see how it's bent to one side like it was swinging of a belt and got snagged, or it's
been jammed of a belt while sitting in a car seat.
The pins aren't loose, just the bail bent sideways.



cheers Gary.

[knives-are-quiet]

Gary,
That bail is peined along with the end pin.
It looks to be made of brass and should bend easily back into shape.
I have bent ones back into shape by just using two pairs of needle nose pliers.
Wrap the clamping part of the pliers with a lot of tape so not to scar up the bail that much.
If you do ,it will be minor and can be sanded and polished out.
You can also hammer it back into shape but I think that would do more damage than the plier method.
Use a piece of pipe that fits through the bail and clamp it in a vise.
Slip the bail over the pipe and shape away with a very light weight hammer.
I'd try the pliers first.

J W

[orvet]

I have run across a strange problem with some of the old scouts.

Some of the old scout patterns used a thin brass tube that, (as near as I can tell), actually held the knife together and the pin that held the bail on went through the tiny tube.
This allows the bail to swivel freely as the pin has no function in holding the knife halves together. If you cut the bail pin to remove the bail & you encounter that tiny tube, you may have a problem replacing the pin. It is a strange system.

For what it is worth, I don’t think Camillus used that method, but if you do encounter a thin brass tube in the handle……don’t take it out.
If you do remove the tube and can’t replace it, you will have to use the bail pin as the pin to hold the knife together, - this means the bail will not swivel easily.

Personally if I was working on the bail, I would use taped pliers and try to bend it back in shape while it is still on the knife.

[philco]

Ever watch a jeweler straighten out a bent ring? They use a tapered metal rod and insert the bent ring in the rod as far as it will go then gently tap the outer surface of the ring with a small hammer. Gradually the ring will become more circular and as it does, it will slide further down toward the larger part of the tapered rod. This process continues until the circular shape of the ring has been restored.
Couldn't that same basic process be employed in straightening out the bent bail ? I haven't tried it but it seems to me it should work.

Phil

[Elvis]

Yep, your method works Phil. I've used it to take out 98% of those bends and I have a large butcher's steel that works great for it. J.W.'s method is good too, but I'd go with taping the pliers like Dale said. The main reason I butted in was to comment on the hollow pin jobs that Dale was talking about. I've only seen one of those, but they're every bit the problem he says they are.

[knife-nut]

[quote="orvet"]I have run across a strange problem with some of the old scouts.

Some of the old scout patterns used a thin brass tube that, (as near as I can tell), actually held the knife together and the pin that held the bail on went through the tiny tube.
This allows the bail to swivel freely as the pin has no function in holding the knife halves together. If you cut the bail pin to remove the bail & you encounter that tiny tube, you may have a problem replacing the pin. It is a strange system.

For what it is worth, I don’t think Camillus used that method, but if you do encounter a thin brass tube in the handle……don’t take it out.
If you do remove the tube and can’t replace it, you will have to use the bail pin as the pin to hold the knife together, - this means the bail will not swivel easily.
Personally if I was working on the bail, I would use taped pliers and try to bend it back in shape while it is still on the knife.[/quote-------------------]Try using a thermocouple for a gas furnace or water heater as a source for the hollow brass tube. Remington scouts and utility patterns used the tubes described.

[wazu013]

Butchers steel and a small ball pein hammer. Works every time Just remember, tap-tap-tap
wazu013

[glennbad]

I just worked on a bail, and I used a similar method. I used a large drill bit and clamped it so the shank was facing out.

Real interesting about the tubing Dale, I have not seen that.

Glenn

[orvet]

I think knife-nut is right.
I seem to recall seeing them on Remingtons & perhaps on Pals as well.

[ringergary]

Job's done, not perfect but passable for the knife's age.
Thanks to everybody that assisted me in what is a daunting job if you are working
in the dark.

It's a lot easier to come here first with a problem and get advice than stumble along
by oneself. Thanks



cheers Gary.

[knives-are-quiet]

Looks as good as it gets, Gary.
Can't imagine that bail getting bent like that by just being snagged on something.
It was probably dropped or stepped on.
I reshaped one that was run over by a vehicle.
It was completely flattened.
bent it back with pliers then tapped it round using the pipe method.

J W

[orvet]

Nice job!
If the ring were perfect it would be out of character on old knife.
Now it adds character instead of detracting from it.
Excellent work.

It's a lot easier to come here first with a problem and get advice than stumble along by oneself. Thanks
cheers Gary.

No problem Gary!
I learn things when helping other guys, and also from discussing a problem and reading how other guys address the issue. Inevitably they do something differently than I do, often with better results, or they figure something out that had me stumped.

[orvet]

Ok guys,
I found a knife that has the brass tube & inner pin that holds on the lanyard loop.

The knife is an old, pre-1941 Dwight Divine Ulster Scout.
As you can see it is a parts knife.

Notice in the second pic at the bottom you can see clearly that the tube is brass.
The tiny pin that goes through the center is non-magnetic, so I assume it is nickel silver & not stainless given the time in which it was made.

The tube is 3/32” (OD) and the pin is 3/64”.

There you have it. I would love to hear your thoughts on it and any experience you may have had working on them.

Dale

[ringergary]

Thanks for chasing up that info on the bail pins Dale.
Makes the learning a bit easier.



cheers Gary.

[knives-are-quiet]

I have never come across a bail attached like that.
Actually seems to be the best way to do so though.
My old Eagle scout knife is an Ulster from the mid 70's.
I'm sure the bail on mine isn't as elaborately attached as that antique scout knife.
That was the age when they built things the right way without worrying about time and cost.
Dale,
You ought to restore that knife....

J W